Differences between 2004 and 2005 650's

I know that the engine (c.c.) between the 2004 650 and 2005 650. In term of c.c. the 2004 is more powerful than the 2005. In reality does the 2005 better than the 2004?

I strongly doubt that husaberg should release a new model that has less power than its predecessor. Sure, the 2004 has slightly more cc's but that is easily made up for with other cams for instance. The new exhaust can also result in more power.
I've ordered a FS650e to replace my "old" 2003 FS650e and I'm convinced that that in my case (i get the new cylinder head, ignition and carb) I'll get quite a boost in power. A ride report will show up as soon as I get my bike and have broken it in...

ICE-BERG said:

I know that the engine (c.c.) between the 2004 650 and 2005 650. In term of c.c. the 2004 is more powerful than the 2005. In reality does the 2005 better than the 2004?

Click to expand...

This statement about 2004 being more powerful than 2005 is not true.
FS650e - 2005 has completely new engine!!!! (made specially for supermoto requirements - light and lots of torque - engine lubrication pressure circulation, trochoit oil pump, micro filter, flushable oil screen, magnetic screw, exhaust system 2-into-1, twin manifold/nickel-plated, aluminium rear muffler + titanium valves....etc...

Even with just looking at the bike, you can see enormous changes especially on engine area.
I can provide you with a few racing data, based on measurement of 2004 Husaberg FS650e racing on track, and 2005 FS650e. 2004 model has 67 HP on wheel. It can outclass any bike on a twisty road - even the famous Yamaha R1 has no chance against this bike. Our testings here in Croatia, with experienced Supermoto rider and experienced Yamaha super sport rider, can confirm this. With Akrapovic exhaust you can get more horse power at higher rpm (that makes about 70-72 HP).

2005 model is more powerful than 2004. Throttle response, gear ratios, new engine construction (2004 had Enduro engine and transmision, 2005 has completely new developed engine!-supermoto spec.), and more horse power, just make 2005 supermoto a class ahead of 2004. Our test drivers here, just say that 2005 is no more "linear and elegant to drive", this bike is aggressive, sharp, powefull, its an adrenalin shot. Even Enduro riders , after trying 2005 FE450, were shocked by strength and aggressive performance of bike.
Final data - top speed 2005 FS650e (gear ratios open version 15:40) - 204 km/h.

Hope some of this helps. There should be no doubt about 2005 models. They are the best bikes Husaberg has ever produced.

pressure circulation, trochoit oil pump, micro filter, flushable oil screen, magnetic screw, exhaust system 2-into-1, twin manifold/nickel-plated, aluminium rear muffler + titanium valves....etc...

Click to expand...

With all due respect 2004 and 2005 engines are quite similiar.
The majority of what you have stated is also true of the 2004.

For the record:
Post 2003 engines no longer pressure feed oil to the top end. Said top end lubrication is by splash via the cam drive.

Kind Regards,
Dale

Hi Dale.

Would you consider top end lubrication by splash a step backwards, as the older engines had that "system" ??

Heimir Bardason

HeimirBardason said:

Hi Dale.

Would you consider top end lubrication by splash a step backwards, as the older engines had that "system" ??

Heimir Bardason

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Hi Heimir,
Not at all as I have had tremendous success with pre oil pump models producing in excess of 65 RWHP @ a sustained 9K rpm.

My point simply was that much of what gets published is sales hype as opposed to that of being a true improvement.

kind Regards,
Dale

Rakeem said:

This statement about 2004 being more powerful than 2005 is not true.
FS650e - 2005 has completely new engine!!!! (made specially for supermoto requirements - light and lots of torque - engine lubrication pressure circulation, trochoit oil pump, micro filter, flushable oil screen, magnetic screw, exhaust system 2-into-1, twin manifold/nickel-plated, aluminium rear muffler + titanium valves....etc...

Even with just looking at the bike, you can see enormous changes especially on engine area.
I can provide you with a few racing data, based on measurement of 2004 Husaberg FS650e racing on track, and 2005 FS650e. 2004 model has 67 HP on wheel. It can outclass any bike on a twisty road - even the famous Yamaha R1 has no chance against this bike. Our testings here in Croatia, with experienced Supermoto rider and experienced Yamaha super sport rider, can confirm this. With Akrapovic exhaust you can get more horse power at higher rpm (that makes about 70-72 HP).

2005 model is more powerful than 2004. Throttle response, gear ratios, new engine construction (2004 had Enduro engine and transmision, 2005 has completely new developed engine!-supermoto spec.), and more horse power, just make 2005 supermoto a class ahead of 2004. Our test drivers here, just say that 2005 is no more "linear and elegant to drive", this bike is aggressive, sharp, powefull, its an adrenalin shot. Even Enduro riders , after trying 2005 FE450, were shocked by strength and aggressive performance of bike.
Final data - top speed 2005 FS650e (gear ratios open version 15:40) - 204 km/h.

Hope some of this helps. There should be no doubt about 2005 models. They are the best bikes Husaberg has ever produced.

Click to expand...

A bit over excited are we...
You sound like a car salesman on speed.

The engine is not completely new but a development from the 2004. Not THAT much is really new. There sure is a lot of improvements but the absolute main reasons for your extacy comes from things already in the older models. Magnetic oilbolts have been there for a few years, light and lots of torque has been there since 1989, preassure circulation, 2-1 exhaust, etc, etc... All old stuff.
And 67 hp on the rear have no 2004 stock that's for sure. 59-61 however which is about 8-10 more than the closest competitor already.
204km/h with 15/40 sounds not so likely also. Then they must have changed the gearing "quite" much.
It just goes on...

But, I will give you this.
The bike seems to be a development in the right direction. Most stuff is aimed at better reliability which is good. About power my guess is that it will NOT beat up the 2004 with more than 2hp. Probably stay flat or a mild loss. The 59-61 hp coming out of the stock 2004 is hard to beat and at the same time aim at high reliability, AND at the same time go down in cc's...

But time will tell.

And, last:
You are already amongst Husaberg fans here, and very well informed ones at that. No reason to overdo the sale-talk.
Noone will take anything but hard facts for a fact here anyway.

Daniel...
www.supermotard-racing.com

Hey Dale -

What's your "professional" opinion for shortening the stroke for 2005?


~ Ken

PowerCell said:

Hey Dale -

What's your "professional" opinion for shortening the stroke for 2005?


~ Ken

Click to expand...

Hi Ken,
The jury is still out.
Seriously, without knowing all of the particulars (ie Rod length, deck height, etc.) it could go either way.

Sincerely,
Dale

PowerCell said:

Hey Dale -

What's your "professional" opinion for shortening the stroke for 2005?


~ Ken

Click to expand...

Since Dale passed on it:

For Supermoto, a quicker revving engine will be more competitive than a longer stroke torque based design. I would guess that KTM and Husaberg are aggressively moving in to dominate the Supermoto market. That market has the greatest potential for sales growth. You have to admit, the Supermoto bikes are among the sexiest of bike designs. Great sales potential. Even non racers can buy a Supermoto bike and use it for a Saturday cruise in the streets. No worries about land closures and track closures like the off road markets. They have a 2 or 3 year headstart on the japs, which doesn't hurt the sales.

thanks to daniel,as for horsepower you stay at groundlevel.

mine; husa 650 2004 with 180 mainjet. 59,4 Hp on backwheel
64NM for torque
Mathieu

Splat said:

PowerCell said:

Hey Dale -

What's your "professional" opinion for shortening the stroke for 2005?


~ Ken

Click to expand...

Since Dale passed on it:

For Supermoto, a quicker revving engine will be more competitive than a longer stroke torque based design. I would guess that KTM and Husaberg are aggressively moving in to dominate the Supermoto market. That market has the greatest potential for sales growth. You have to admit, the Supermoto bikes are among the sexiest of bike designs. Great sales potential. Even non racers can buy a Supermoto bike and use it for a Saturday cruise in the streets. No worries about land closures and track closures like the off road markets. They have a 2 or 3 year headstart on the japs, which doesn't hurt the sales.

Click to expand...

Hi Splat,
With all due respect a shorter stroke is not indicative of a "quicker revving" engine.

All else remaining equal:
Reduced displacement = reduced power = reduced acceleration.

Best Regards,
Dale

I'm suspecting something more along the lines of less crank flex, maybe a longer piston skirt or relocating the piston pin to better accomodate the piston rings.

Time will tell - maybe it's in the repair manual...


~ Ken

Shorter stroke = lower piston speed = higher rpm range

With the proper cam, you would gain hp at a higher, but more narrow rpm range. A more suitable power curve for Supermoto.

It could be that they are moving the power curve up in the rpm range, much like is done in road race cars;i.e. Formula cars from Formula Vee to Formula Ford to F1.

Splat said:

Shorter stroke = lower piston speed = higher rpm range

With the proper cam, you would gain hp at a higher, but more narrow rpm range. A more suitable power curve for Supermoto.

It could be that they are moving the power curve up in the rpm range, much like is done in road race cars;i.e. Formula cars from Formula Vee to Formula Ford to F1.

Click to expand...

Hi Splat,
Quote from previous post: "all else remaining equal"
My intention is to educate the uninformed lest leading them to believe a stroke reduction in itself increases power output and consequent engine acceleration, which of course it does not.

My gut feeling is KTM reduced the stroke in an attempt to improve engine reliability. If horsepower through increased rpm was on the agenda I am most certain they would not have decreased the intake valve size.

When class rules do not dictate a displacement limit (ie SM Unlimited) it is far more reliable to increase engine displacement as opposed to turning the engine tighter. Peak rpm is most often only raised to increase power output when a displacement limit is mandated.

Sincerely,
Dale

Hi Dale,

I did and do realize that was your intention. I was not nor am not trying to debate with you. I was just throwing out some thoughts for discussion and for the benefit of the people that do not have the training or experience to have considered those possibilities.



Shall we dare to start discussing long stroke/small bore vs short stroke/big bore and the effect each has on the optimum valve size, port shape, gas velocities, and valve timing selection, and....... 8O :wink:

Race engines are marvelous pieces of equipment.

Test drova a stock 650 -05 today. Just around a block but still.

Also have some pics of that one and a 450 -05 if someone is interested.

Daniel

There's an old saying, "There's no replacement for displacement." I read in this forum that crank bearing failures were a potential problem for the 650. I was under the impression the reduction in displacement (shortening the stroke a bit) was only to off-load the main bearings a little and improve longevity. Besides the bike still has insane amounts of power. What's 16cc, really. I think it's worth 16cc not to see my crank shaft rolling around behind me.

- Craig

I thought it was the 450's that had the early crank failures?


~ Ken

Back to the "REAL" differences between the 2004 and 2005 models.

In Australia Husaberg is offering run out 2004 models at a decent cost, somewhere in the vicinity of a $1000 discount with a "Free Upgrade Kit".
The upgrade kit comprises of;
1. 2005 graphics and seat cover.
2. Forged aluminium kick starter.
3. 2005 Handlebar.
4. Thermostat.

Apart from the above items, Husaberg claim that the;
- Shock and Forks have revised settings.
- A linear rear spring replaces the progressive spring.
- Swingarm 30% higher stiffness
- Digital speedometer slimmer, sportier design.
- Chain guard design.
- Ergonomic handguards.
- Revised Exhaust system. ie: KTM Muffler profile.

As i see it.
1. Given the the suspension gets retuned for most riders as the bikes are essentially set up for 80 +/-5 Kg riders then this is not an issue as springs need to be changed for a 100 kg rider.
2. In my opinion the new (KTM insprired) speedo is a step back particulary as there is no remote control like the unit on the 2004 model.
3. Chain guide. Cant see to many advantages there. The old one was fitted from the 2000 model and was also fitted to 1995 onward LC4 KTM's without any issues.
4. Revised exhaust system. Apart from the fact that it has become harder to fill the oil the only advantage that i see is for KTM/Husaberg as they have a common profile muffler can for both bikes at the manafacturing level.

So to the real question, what benefit is there in bying a 2005 model over a 2004 model with an upgrade kit supplied FOC?
Is there a myraid of internal engine changes (noting the cc change on the 650 and the inclusion of titanium valves on the 450 FC and FS-S models) that would negate buying the 2005 over a 2004?

Bahnsy