Cross Country Husaberg?

littleyellowbat · Oct 28, 2005

What do you think...

It seems as though there would be a large enough demand in the US for a cross country version of a Husaberg in the 450 and 550 size which would include the following traits:

18" rear wheel
Motocross spec engine
Close ratio 6 spd tranny (low enough first for really gnarly stuff)
Lighting coil (actual lights should be optional)
NO battery/starter motor
A suspension setup somewhere between enduro and motocross

Husaberg is serious about racing right? It would seem that a setup with the above would be a hot ticket (at least in the US) for the Hare Scramble race format which is becoming very popular.

I would like this setup but its halfway between a FC and FE. A heavily modified FC is the closest I guess. It seems that if you are serious about racing, you dont need the battery, starter motor, and the associated complexity to get in the way. In racing weight is huge right?! Maybe in '07, I'm hoping...

Anyway I just thought I would throw this out here and see if anyone else has the same hair-brained idea...

Will
'99 FE501

fryguy · Oct 28, 2005

lyb

What you described is what used to the FX series. Lets check out a few pionts.

- the transmission is identical from the FC to FE except the 5th and 6th gears are added to the FE
-final drive ratios differ to tighten up the gearing
- removing the starter has been popular with Euro riders, but many keep it on
-flaming out in a tight nasty spot can mean more time restarting than the weight savings gained
-remember the starter is very low and so is th ebattery
-the FX models had electric starters

good points no doubt as %#$ has produced this same concept of unit with the XC

tm-enduro · Oct 28, 2005

I have commented before that it would be nice for Hbg to make a bike aimed directly at the GNCC type racing. What you have described is essentially an FE with the lights and estart removed. The motor is plenty fast, and suspension revalving is a given for anyone that races or wants an optimal ride. Making multiple lines of bikes (like KTM sx/xc/xc-w/exc) is a pain for the mfg and for dealers to know which model to stock, ultimately driving up the price.
Historically, Hbg has offered the Force Editon which really didn't do alot other than put on a few trick parts.
But, I could see the option to custom order (like TM does) a bike from the factory with certain differences, or having a "race kit" offered. Hbg offers Force race parts like spare wheels, suspension(WP SXS), many if not all the top GNCC racers are running aftermarket suspension, and Ti exhaust. Removing the estart is easy (many UHE members removed theirs) and so is removing lights. The close ratio GB is tougher though. Also, I wonder if a quick reving 400cc would better simulate the characteristics of a 250 2T for woods riding. The 250 2T's are winning because they work well in that element.
Thats my 2 cents.

DaleEO · Oct 28, 2005

My two cents,

I think it also depends on whether or not you are running in a class that has displacement restrictions. Myself, I ride the Senior Open class in local District 37 races, and the National Hare & Hound series. And the "Open" class is from 251cc's on up regardless of 4t or 2t.

I have been riding my 04 FE550E lately, and still have my 01 FE501E. In my type of racing I have found that having the extra cc's over the common 450 japanese has been a big a big help in our dead engine type starts. Like last weekend, I had several jap 450's around me, and at the start we were dead even until I hit 3rd gear, and then I easily pulled away. GOD I LOVE THAT! Later in the race I find that the extra torque of the bigger motor is an advantage, especially when negotiating loose rocks, and tight technical sections, the motor just chugs right through, yet as I mentioned before, it is still very lively in the faster sections.

As also mentioned, the starter and battery is carried very low on the chassis. I suppose that a sensitive rider could possibly notice the 12 pound weight difference, but, the first time you stall the bike into a corner and hit the button and keep going like you didn't miss a beat, some would consider the extra worth it. AND, the first time you stall the bike on an off camber uphill and are able to hit the button and continue on will further convince you. Finally, towards the end of a 3 or 4 hour event, and you're really tired, and you fall down and there is gas pouring out the over flow of the carb, you know the bike is flooded, and you pick it up and hit the button and the engine turns over for about 5 seconds and slowly comes to life and you motor off not loosing that hard earned spot from the guy you passed a couple of miles back, you'll also be lovin life. There has been a couple of times that I have fallen off, and by the time I have picked the bike up, I have it running again as I'm swingin my leg over the seat. Okay so you get the picture, I'm huge fan of the button.

As far as lights and extra plastic goes. You can just exchange the front plate of the FE with the FC with a little modification. That is if you want to keep the speedo/odo. Personally, l like having the odo/speedo so I know roughly how far I'm into the first 40 mile loop, or into the whole 80 mile race. It's a great tool for pacing yourself.

It used to be that the only difference between the FC & FE was 5th & 6th gear, but, now the FC's 4 speed box kind of limits the ol FC to tracks. Although Ty Davis and Russ Pearson seem to do just fine with their 4 speed YZF's. However, for the rest of us mortals, having the FE's wide 6 speed box is a great advantage. It wil rock crawl in 1st, and do 100mph in 6th. Pretty versatile. I have thought about going up a tooth or two on the rear to tighten up the ratio's a bit, but, that I'll wait till the original chain wheels wear out.

t-jet-tim · Oct 28, 2005

I will say one thing,the FX series transmision
ratios were perfect.

littleyellowbat · Oct 30, 2005

DaleEO said:
My two cents,

I think it also depends on whether or not you are running in a class that has displacement restrictions. Myself, I ride the Senior Open class in local District 37 races, and the National Hare & Hound series. And the "Open" class is from 251cc's on up regardless of 4t or 2t.

I have been riding my 04 FE550E lately, and still have my 01 FE501E. In my type of racing I have found that having the extra cc's over the common 450 japanese has been a big a big help in our dead engine type starts. Like last weekend, I had several jap 450's around me, and at the start we were dead even until I hit 3rd gear, and then I easily pulled away. GOD I LOVE THAT! Later in the race I find that the extra torque of the bigger motor is an advantage, especially when negotiating loose rocks, and tight technical sections, the motor just chugs right through, yet as I mentioned before, it is still very lively in the faster sections.

As also mentioned, the starter and battery is carried very low on the chassis. I suppose that a sensitive rider could possibly notice the 12 pound weight difference, but, the first time you stall the bike into a corner and hit the button and keep going like you didn't miss a beat, some would consider the extra worth it. AND, the first time you stall the bike on an off camber uphill and are able to hit the button and continue on will further convince you. Finally, towards the end of a 3 or 4 hour event, and you're really tired, and you fall down and there is gas pouring out the over flow of the carb, you know the bike is flooded, and you pick it up and hit the button and the engine turns over for about 5 seconds and slowly comes to life and you motor off not loosing that hard earned spot from the guy you passed a couple of miles back, you'll also be lovin life. There has been a couple of times that I have fallen off, and by the time I have picked the bike up, I have it running again as I'm swingin my leg over the seat. Okay so you get the picture, I'm huge fan of the button.

As far as lights and extra plastic goes. You can just exchange the front plate of the FE with the FC with a little modification. That is if you want to keep the speedo/odo. Personally, l like having the odo/speedo so I know roughly how far I'm into the first 40 mile loop, or into the whole 80 mile race. It's a great tool for pacing yourself.

It used to be that the only difference between the FC & FE was 5th & 6th gear, but, now the FC's 4 speed box kind of limits the ol FC to tracks. Although Ty Davis and Russ Pearson seem to do just fine with their 4 speed YZF's. However, for the rest of us mortals, having the FE's wide 6 speed box is a great advantage. It wil rock crawl in 1st, and do 100mph in 6th. Pretty versatile. I have thought about going up a tooth or two on the rear to tighten up the ratio's a bit, but, that I'll wait till the original chain wheels wear out.

Excellent points. Although I still think that the starter motor equipped Husaberg is geared more towards a recreational crowd rather than the racing crowd...I could be wrong though. 12lbs is a lot.

What are the factory Husaberg riders using for motors? Are they e-start equipped? The Honda team racing the Baja on the XR 650's didnt appear to have an e-start and it would seem that in a race like that you would want one.

Taffy · Oct 30, 2005

oh boy! racers versus readers!

the CR box is bad news for real racers.

fact is first could be as low as 14 x 52 rear and then the bike is flat out in 6th after 150 yards. CR box? bollocks is what i say...

rugrats

Taffy

nsman · Oct 30, 2005

Has not the Fc engine with the 4-speed trans the same transmission ratios as the fe engines from ratios 1-4.The Fc engine has I believe all 6 gears on one shaft but two spacers on the other shaft where ratios 5-6 would be on the fe engine.
Has anyone updated a fc(04-05) engine to 6 speeds by adding the two gears and supporting shift fork assy?
....nsman

LeFrog · Oct 30, 2005

What prevents you from taking an FC, add a 5th and a 6th gear and then experiment with different front and rear sprockets?

t-jet-tim · Oct 30, 2005

You might want to do a search.I think this has
been discussed before.

Taffy · Oct 31, 2005

LeFrog said:
What prevents you from taking an FC, add a 5th and a 6th gear and then experiment with different front and rear sprockets?

the point is that if you lower first-you lower 6th as well. on 14 x 51 or 14 x 52 the 400 -even tuned - has the right first gear but 6th is then too low as well. you need a wider box than the FE spread in the 400.

i would think that it's even worse for the more powerful bikes because they rev out even quicker!

i'd like an even wider spread box let alone going down to a CR box like the FX had.

regards

Taffy

jmumme · Nov 1, 2005

For what it's worth - I'm not giving up my e-start. It works flawlessly.
John

DaleEO · Nov 2, 2005

Just watched Dust to Glory the other night-great film-

Speaking of racers.....

I wonder how Andy Grider's team mate would feel about electric starters, after losing the overall lead to Steve Hengeveld (sp?) in the pits b/c he couldn't get the ol "B"team XR650 started with the kicker after Andy had rode his a#@ off catching, and then passing Johnny Campbell in the pits by a strategic choice of tire compound.

And I believe MR. Lafferty enjoys his electric start KTM 400 as well.

LeFrog · Nov 2, 2005

Dust to Glory is a great movie, but also a great commercial for the Honda XR650.

I thought it was a little bit of an insult to only focus on the red riders and totally ignore the other riders.

Now, would he have passed him with the extra weight from the battery and starter assembly?

fryguy · Nov 2, 2005

NSman

Boss has done numerous FC 6 sp installs, just as you point out. The FC that he had posted photos of was set up that way.

Taffy

Personally I totally agree with you on the CR vs WR tranny spiel. By tightening up the final drive ration you eliminate the motors ability to use its torque, instead it just revs through the traction.

But many 2 stroke guys, or guys who ride their 4 strokes like the 2 str bikes, like the CR because they are always in the meat of the power. For the most part there are few places in NA that are like your riding conditions in England. We would end up in jail if we rode and ripped up wide open green spaces that you guys ride. Grass track on conditions are very very rare here, not that a few of us don't dream of just those conditions.

sandskipper · Nov 2, 2005

Well I suppose that with the budget that Dana Brown and Scott Waugh had combined with the spread of the event/location, they had to focus on a few riders and historically the Honda teams have dominated the Score Baja. I would have liked to see some more of the unknown teams/riders also but to capture an event like the Baja on film was pretty cool. I hope that more films like this will be shot in the future. After watching this film in my home, I have added it to the top destinations to see before I die.

Regards,

LeFrog · Nov 2, 2005

Sandskipper, we are going OT, but if you visit the movie's Web site it is obvious they had a contract with Honda. Go to the vehicles, click on Motorcycle and then the "360 view" and instead of that (a 360 view) you get a Honda infomercial presented by Johnny Campbell.

I don't mind it, it still remains a great movie, but you don't even get a glimpse of a KTM or a Berg, as if only the red bikes were allowed. The only pumpkin you see is that of Smith's son during one of the inserts. That bothers me a little, especially when you learn one of our guys rode this race and fell a few miles from the finish line and cut off a finger (or so I was told :cry: )

About the extra weight of a starter, is it legal at all to use an external source of electricity? Has anybody ever built a lighter battery that would only be connected to the starter motor and give just a couple seconds of power? How about an even lighter starter that would be used in conjonction with the kickstart, triggered by just the operation of pushing the kickstart?

Or it's too much work and you need to build a leg?

sandskipper · Nov 2, 2005

Maybe a capacitor instead of a battery that would allow just one chance at starting and recharged off the stator??

Cross Country Husaberg?

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