I just took the valve cover w/rocker arms off my bike for an inspection, now I don't know what to do. In my 30+ years of riding/racing I've never had a 4T torn down this far. I have a 2002 fx470e want to know what I'm looking for an how to fix it. Visually everthing looks OK. The follower bearings have some side play, but no detectable up and down. The follower bearing pins are peened in place with a punch. Any and all help will be appreciated.
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Based on our previous telephone conversation and the number of hours you have logged I suggest you press the follower axles from the rockerarms. Look for obvious signs of spalling on the axles.
It is inexpensive insurance to replace the roller follower assemblies at this time of inspection.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Dale
It is inexpensive insurance to replace the roller follower assemblies at this time of inspection.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Dale
If I press it are needle bearnig going to be falling out? If OK do I reassemble? Do I peen the pin upon completion to secure? Is this a part that is shared with KTM, or do I need to order from H'berg?
BTW, I do not have a small press to do this, the only one I have access to a my fathers big one that we use on his logging equipment, and it's big and filthy.
BTW, I do not have a small press to do this, the only one I have access to a my fathers big one that we use on his logging equipment, and it's big and filthy.
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Yes, needle bearings will fall out.
I advise against reusing the components even if they appear suitable to the naked eye.
You may use a large vice as a press for the interference fit is light.
Most Likely Dan @ MotoXotica will have followers in stock.
Simply reverse the disassembly procedure and re-stake the axles in place.
Best Regards,
Dale
I advise against reusing the components even if they appear suitable to the naked eye.
You may use a large vice as a press for the interference fit is light.
Most Likely Dan @ MotoXotica will have followers in stock.
Simply reverse the disassembly procedure and re-stake the axles in place.
Best Regards,
Dale
Thanks for the advise. I was hoping that the part# crossed over to a KTM rfs part because I have a pretty good KTM dealer 10 minutes from the house, and I could get the bike back together for a ride tomorrow.
The vise or vise-grips idea sounds good. Dale, I'll make sure to get the wear info to you. I'm tempted to put it together to ride tomorrow and pull it down this coming week for a parts replacement.
The vise or vise-grips idea sounds good. Dale, I'll make sure to get the wear info to you. I'm tempted to put it together to ride tomorrow and pull it down this coming week for a parts replacement.
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Husqvarna rollers will work if you have the original rockers with 8mm roller pin. They run a bit cheaper too.
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Taffy said:
Option 1: New rollers(the husky ones seem to be better and cheaper - 1615 04501), check rocker bushings for wear, check shafts for wear.
Option 2: Update to 2003 model rockers. Updated rockers include rocker, roller, new bushing, adjuster screw, and adjuster nut. The rollers I believe have a smaller pin, but larger needle bearings. These updated rollers outlast the original roller.
One thing I'm still trying to verify is if the KTM part # 59036057000 ROCKER ARM SHAFT EXHAUST 94MM is the same as the Berg. ie. Oiling holes match up. From what I can tell they are half the cost of the Berg part, and are used in the 2004 Berg's.
Another option that I need to verify is if the Husky shafts(1615 04201) and rocker bushings(1615 04301) will potentially work and are cheaper.
Anyone have a well stocked KTM or Husky dealer to check the above, or know first hand? :?:
Note: The 2001-2003 Berg's(I don't know about the older ones) use the same size shaft for intake and exhaust. The 04 Berg's and KTM's have a different part(shorter) for the Intake, that would not work on the pre 2004 Berg's.
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Powerfeind
so what your saying is that the roller that follows the cam goes and so does the shaft/bush they sit/turn on? in the meantime the rocker arm is ok on it's spindle-this doesn't go?
it's just something i've never caught up with, sorry!
armed with your brilliant info, can you clear up any of the parts crossing and then i'll put it in my document and accredit you for the info.
Taffy
so what your saying is that the roller that follows the cam goes and so does the shaft/bush they sit/turn on? in the meantime the rocker arm is ok on it's spindle-this doesn't go?
it's just something i've never caught up with, sorry!
armed with your brilliant info, can you clear up any of the parts crossing and then i'll put it in my document and accredit you for the info.
Taffy
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Taffy, In my experience it is the small spindle of the follower that goes first. The shaft develops wear only on the thrust side, and will get perceptible play, but only in one direction. Once through the outer hardening they wear fast. After a little play develops, the needles **** and bind and the follower can scuff the cam.
I have always caught the wear before they got much play, so no damage.
I have a theory that some of the roller shafts are not properly hardened, and that is why some last for years and others wear in a few dozen hours. With this in mind I hesitate to change my old, but still tight rollers for a replacement part that is of questionable metallurgy.
I am past due for an inspection, will keep you posted in a couple of weeks.
I have always caught the wear before they got much play, so no damage.
I have a theory that some of the roller shafts are not properly hardened, and that is why some last for years and others wear in a few dozen hours. With this in mind I hesitate to change my old, but still tight rollers for a replacement part that is of questionable metallurgy.
I am past due for an inspection, will keep you posted in a couple of weeks.
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thanks carl
my follower wheel is as tight as a ducks arse. there is no 'rumble' in the bearings and they don't spin freely but just like they were new with two rubber seals in if you follow me (pun intended). i'm getting worried that i DON'T have a problem.
i shall leave it till i do. which given that i intend going to the '53' cam-can't be long!
i have a line around the cam on the exhaust cam lobe however. it's a discolouration down a jagged line that runs right around the cam lobe. it looks like one half has lost it's hardened surface, as if it could be scraped or fall off. comments?
Taffy
my follower wheel is as tight as a ducks arse. there is no 'rumble' in the bearings and they don't spin freely but just like they were new with two rubber seals in if you follow me (pun intended). i'm getting worried that i DON'T have a problem.
i shall leave it till i do. which given that i intend going to the '53' cam-can't be long!
i have a line around the cam on the exhaust cam lobe however. it's a discolouration down a jagged line that runs right around the cam lobe. it looks like one half has lost it's hardened surface, as if it could be scraped or fall off. comments?
Taffy
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What bike are you thinking of putting the 53 cam in ?
If its a 400 / 450 I think you will be dissapointed.
Watch out for dodgy "new" 03 rocker kits. I bought some and the exhaust rocker had loads a play on the unworn shaft. I sent it back and the replacment was so much different. I think they have MAJOR quality issues.
Check yours if you get new 03 rockers !
Lloyd.
If its a 400 / 450 I think you will be dissapointed.
Watch out for dodgy "new" 03 rocker kits. I bought some and the exhaust rocker had loads a play on the unworn shaft. I sent it back and the replacment was so much different. I think they have MAJOR quality issues.
Check yours if you get new 03 rockers !
Lloyd.
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Taffy said:
When I say roller I mean the roller, needle bearing, and 8mm pin as an assembly(Since they need to be replaced as such). The shaft and bushing I refer to above are for the rocker pivot. ie. the 94mm long x 12mm dia. shafts that allow the rocker to pivot in the cam cover. I believe you refer to it as a spindle. My shafts have noticable wear and the bike is only on its second set of rollers.
Taffy said:
JoeUSA gets the credit for the Husky followers.
Replaced the cam followers tonight, was a pretty straightforward operation. The intake rocker pivot shaft was somewhat difficult to remove. Both shafts went in a hair out of rotation so it took a few minutes to line up the cover bolts. Any tips on that would be helpful for the future.
No perceptable wear was evident on the follower pins. The wearing side of the pins had a slight haze to it, but no grooving or spalling. The old rollers had more sideplay than the replacements, but that could be due to a slight reduction in width of the rocker arm fork.
No perceptable wear was evident on the follower pins. The wearing side of the pins had a slight haze to it, but no grooving or spalling. The old rollers had more sideplay than the replacements, but that could be due to a slight reduction in width of the rocker arm fork.
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wonder if someone can advise me by monday morning when i intend phoning my dealer and berating him. he has sent me a pair of rockers including the valve contact pads, tappet screws and their locknuts.
i can see that the pins through the follower bearings are smaller and seem to sit in circular dowels within the arm ends. there is oil on everything and the pads and bushes at the rocker pivots show that i haven't been sold new items.
finally the reciept specifically says "'03 rocker arms". so are the '03's inferior to the '04's?
i paid £90 + vat which i thought was reasonable but not sure if the cheeky bugger has charged me new or used price.
year mod?
cost new in UK?
Ta!
Taffy
i can see that the pins through the follower bearings are smaller and seem to sit in circular dowels within the arm ends. there is oil on everything and the pads and bushes at the rocker pivots show that i haven't been sold new items.
finally the reciept specifically says "'03 rocker arms". so are the '03's inferior to the '04's?
i paid £90 + vat which i thought was reasonable but not sure if the cheeky bugger has charged me new or used price.
year mod?
cost new in UK?
Ta!
Taffy
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2001
- Messages
- 3,249
- Location
- El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
Hi Taffy,
2003 rockerarms give the illusion that the follower axles are sitting in a bushing. However, they are not. The circular stamp is how the new axles are staked into place. Said axles are indeed smaller than that of previous years allowing for the running of larger diameter needle bearings.
Kind Regards,
Dale
2003 rockerarms give the illusion that the follower axles are sitting in a bushing. However, they are not. The circular stamp is how the new axles are staked into place. Said axles are indeed smaller than that of previous years allowing for the running of larger diameter needle bearings.
Kind Regards,
Dale
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