battery dead, could it be the new fan?

65 hours NEVER had any problem starting my 06 Fe450e, either kick starting it or E start. rarely if ever put the battery on a charger, since it always worked.

starting 3-4 rides ago as summer started, Bike was hard to start - 3 kicks cold after summer temps hit, dropped pilot jet from 48 to 45......maybe should have left pilot and dropped main from 175 to 170 for summer, but also at same time I installed the fan kit........since fan install two rides ago, 70% of the time I come to a stop and turn off the bike then and only then the fan runs for like 1 minute. I figure the water pump has stopped and the motor heats the coolant down low and it rises and triggers the temp sensor at the base of the radiator which runs the fan..Today Bike would not kick start cold at all sounded dead.....then I went to use battery and nothing but one spin the battery was depleted.

so I'll put it on a charger today, and change out the plug..maybe put back in the 48 pj and drop the main..........bottom line do ya think my fan running after every stop has ran down the battery? or do u think after 65 Hours with lots of e starts the orginal battery is toast and only a coincidence with new fan install?

I'm gonna disconnect the fan, charge the battery and see how that holds up for the next ride day.

PS valve clearances are good, so the lately semi hard starting is weird.

OH YEAH - after bump starting it today ran like 10 miles of trails before trying the e start again - nothing THAT is weird shouldn't have the bike stator recharged my batterry during that 10 miles of trail ride? or does battery need something before bike will recharge it..?.... that bugged me today how the battery never recharged on the bike. no e start all day(half day ride 35 miles) but bike did kick start better later once warmed up

Bob:

I think that your battery has probably degraded over time due to it not being kept fully charged while in storage. Adding the cooling fan only exacerbated the symptoms.

In order to maintain the tiny YTZ battery so that it is always up to the task, keep it pluged into an Optimate III charger or equivalent to keep grid corrosion and sulfating at bay.

I have found the YTZ7S will not take kindly to being left in a state of discharge. Coupled with normal discharge from sitting the addition of the fan was probably the proverbial straw.

I would:

Charge the battery with a true five step charger (Optimate III)
After fully charged measure the voltage. It must read 13.5 volts.
Measure it the following day & see if it holds 13.5 volts.

If the battery will not charge to 13.5 or hold the charge replace the battery.

In the future, always plug in the charger as soon as you get the bike back to the garage and you should get greatly extended service from the little YTZ.

Before installing a new battery be sure to bench charge it to 13.5 volts before putting it into service. Using an inferior battery charger which will not take the battery up to 13.5 volts may result in a battery that will never fully charge properly due to battery memory.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/apparel/apscitemdetail/3/101/all/1/2737/detail.aspx

Bob,

The Optimate comes with a pigtail you mount onto the battery. It stays with the bike so you have a real easy 'plug in' each time you park the bike at home.

The battery in my 00 501 lasted 5 years and 2 months using the charger each time I parked it at home.

Regards,

Joe

Our little YTZ batteries certainly do have a tough job. Infrequent rides and engine off operation of the new fan probably tipped the battery drain/recharge tug of war in the wrong direction.

If your battery won't recharge after a night on the charger it's probably done for. A new battery and proper use of a battery tender should set you right.

with my Husky, I used to plug in my battery all the time, then I had a battery fail then I installed new battery and a dual sport after market kit, then I lost faith in battery charging. As a result I steadfastly never put my husaberg on a charger but only twice for the hell of it. I have the top of the line Deltran Battery charger, the big one. The Husaberg has now been on the Charger for almost 2.5 hours. The light is still red.

I hope my batterry comes back to life. Changing out the battery looks to be complicated. I read about it on the other post.

Thanks for your advice and tips. I'll let ya know the results of all night charging.

Ah huh



Notice the battery charger cables attached while the bike is in storage. Essential for a happy battery

bigbob said:

with my Husky, I used to plug in my battery all the time, then I had a battery fail then I installed new battery and a dual sport after market kit, then I lost faith in battery charging. As a result I steadfastly never put my husaberg on a charger but only twice for the hell of it. I have the top of the line Deltran Battery charger, the big one. The Husaberg has now been on the Charger for almost 2.5 hours. The light is still red.

I hope my batterry comes back to life. Changing out the battery looks to be complicated. I read about it on the other post.

Thanks for your advice and tips. I'll let ya know the results of all night charging.

Click to expand...

Bob:

I think the Battery Tender is O.K. for regular batteries but the YTZ is of the MF variety which requires it to be charged to 13.5 volts. I don't think the Battery Tender is capable of this. Also a five step charger (only a few out there) can actually desulfate a battery as it hits it with 22 volts for up to 2 hours automatically. I believe its considered the best charger currently available.
[web]http://www.accumate.co.uk/OptiFlowChart.html[/web]

Same thing for me on a new 06 FE650, I had to replace the battery , would not keep a charge, I now keep on the charger every other week.

Iam having second thoughts on the fan, need a switch or it will always run after miles at higher temp's.

These batteries dont have memories like ni-cad's that we use in aircraft industry , there we must do cycles to keep a 100 % charge .

Iam going to get the optima charger thou.....

And yes the fan keeps running & running long after the engine is off, Iam not going to put one on my new 06 FS650E next week....

Big Bob Sir
As an electrician - the first thing i would check is that you have wired it correctly and that you have 12v to the fan during and after the engine is running. I don't know of the fan kit you have installed, but you might consider cutting the supply once the engine has stopped via your ignition switch or other means. That kind of drain typically 3A for 1 minute is not the kind of drain these batteries are designed for - no wonder it's going flat. You may have even blown your charge fuse already.
'Always check the obvious' I say.

Regards
Ady

gotta green light at 3 hours. read 13.01 volts, good quality VM. Placed it back on charger, blinking green light after 1 minute, maybe it will take it up more closer to 13.5V.

Gonna disconnect my $149.00 Husaberg fan. I never overheated the bike, though I can really feel the heat coming off the radiators now in summer temps of 80F plus, still I never over heated the bike. I suspect the Fe550 or 650 may lead you to feather that clutch in tight situations so that would lead to over heating. I would want a fan then. I spewed my Te-510 a few times in tight situations in summer temps. I bought the husaberg fan cause it was available.

The fan sounds loud and powerful, but the question for the electricans is how much amp draw (or battery reserve) does the fan really use when the motor is off? and is it truley an issue for concern. maybe a switch will save power use of the fan. I could choose to shut off except in tight hot conditions. I wonder if the Husaberg factory engineers have this all figured out or not.......or does the husaberg fan kit - a new item in 06 draw too much juice? that is a fair question too seeing that this fan kit is new this year. I'll find out my own experience on my next rides with the fan disconnected. and Q for the heat transfer/rejection motor engineers- do we really need a fan to start running once the engine is off? since I don't over heat the 450 anyways not yet and since I ride slow now with my girlfriend having a fresh battery all day is more important so I'll disconect my new fan, see if that settles down my weak battery issue.

Ady said:

Big Bob Sir
As an electrician - the first thing i would check is that you have wired it correctly and that you have 12v to the fan during and after the engine is running. I don't know of the fan kit you have installed, but you might consider cutting the supply once the engine has stopped via your ignition switch or other means. That kind of drain typically 3A for 1 minute is not the kind of drain these batteries are designed for - no wonder it's going flat. You may have even blown your charge fuse already.
'Always check the obvious' I say.

Regards
Ady

Click to expand...

the wiring instructions are very simple and straight forward. It's a husaberg factory fan kit it made special for the new 06 model. The 06 models have fan mounting holes in the radiator. The fan kit is an option not stock. There is a harness plug on the bike for the fan, and all you do is mount the fan and plug it in. thanks for telling me about the amp draw and the expected consequences.................. I suspect the issue is the unexpected coolant temperature rise at the base of the radiator once the engine is turned off creating a hot temp signal at the sensor (installed at the base of radiator) to run the fan. This after engine off fan running scenario is probably not expected by Husaberg engineers, they probably want the fan to run only when the bike is running to support it electrically.........maybe-don't know

the wiring instructions are very simple and straight forward. It's a husaberg factory fan kit it made special for the new 06 model. The 06 models have fan mounting holes in the radiator. The fan kit is an option not stock. There is a harness plug on the bike for the fan, and all you do is mount the fan and plug it in. thanks for telling me about the amp draw and the expected consequences.................. I suspect the issue is the unexpected coolant temperature rise at the base of the radiator once the engine is turned off creating a hot temp signal at the sensor (installed at the base of radiator) to run the fan. This after engine off fan running scenario is probably not expected by Husaberg engineers, they probably want the fan to run only when the bike is running to support it electrically.........maybe-don't know[/quote]

This wouldn't be unexpected by Husaberg engineers BB.Basic thermodynamics(whatever the H that is )This is very common in automotive applications except in those cases where switching off the ignition cuts the power to the fan relay.If you only want your fan to run while the bike is running disconnect the power wire from the battery circuit and tie it in to the voltage regulator circuit with an inline fuse.(big yellow wire as I recall)That way,when you shut the bike off there will be no power to the fan circuit.This would be the same wiring setup as your lights.

Bob:

On my wifes YFZ450 quad there is a known issue with the battery discharging while riding. The charging system is designed to supply maximum charging at low to medium RPM with the headlights on. During low speed operation with the fan running frequently, it is necessary to keep the lights on to maintain a charged battery.

Yamaha states that the system normally discharges anytime the cooling fan is on. For proper system operation the battery voltage should be 14.0-14.9 at idle before the cooling fan starts to cycle on and off.

So..........

For fun how about measuring your battery voltage at idle without the cooling fan on. Then check at it 5000 rpm. Then check it at 5000 rpm with the lights on. Recheck all with the cooling fan on. It may just be that running with the lights on might help keep the battery charging while riding.

i am sold on the optimate 3 charger , does anybody know who
the aus distributor is ???

There are other multi-stage chargers around if you can't get an Optimate in Oz. I have one made by Mascot & sold thru Powerbox for about AU$110.

thanks

i found out that the aust distributor is based in Qld , he told me who sells them in in my area .

I also have a fan mounted on my Fe450-06 since a while to get down the engine temperature and i have the same problem, the battery dies after only an hour... I knew some guys with KTM bikes and they have the same problem.

The solution could be to remove the headlamp and all the other things connected to the AC-circuit and connect the fan to this and only have the electric starter on the DC-circuit?
What might happen? The fan should work also on AC and there should be enough power to make it run smoothly even on low rpms I think...what do you think? By this the fan will ofcourse stop as soon as the engine stops. The Earth wire is the same on both AC & DC so this shouldn't cause any problems (the Earth is connected in the cooler when using the fan)??

The fan demands less than 45-40 Watts I guess as there's a 5 A fuse connected to it, and runing a 55 W H4 lamp on the AC circuit has never been a problem for me...


Another solution is to have the Trailtech 3-phase stator mounted, I had this mounted during winter to run some Xenon-lamps but it burnt som now I run on the original stator...

don't know the answer to your tech query, but my update is this:

I un hooked my fan, my Del Tran battery tender will only charge the battery to 13.0 volts not 13.5v, still the battery works fine now. A friend did make my berg spew after test ride at 90F and letting the bike idle too long stopped at a trail split, so I know now my bike will over heat if driven to do so. We also know the new husaberg fan works but runs after stop and so drains the battery

my solution for now is disconnect the fan, but if I was racing a hot enduro I would keep the fan plugged in and charge the battery fully the night before and then use the kick start all the time except in dire straights then hopefully the E start will have enough juice.

other wise for weekend play rides I can live without my new fan for now till hopefully one of you knowledgeable techs will uncover more of a realistic operatiing solution.........or maybe Husaberg is listening?

How about running with the lights on as this may activate the charging system to produce maximum charging capability?

husabutt said:

Bob:

On my wifes YFZ450 quad there is a known issue with the battery discharging while riding. The charging system is designed to supply maximum charging at low to medium RPM with the headlights on. During low speed operation with the fan running frequently, it is necessary to keep the lights on to maintain a charged battery.

Yamaha states that the system normally discharges anytime the cooling fan is on. For proper system operation the battery voltage should be 14.0-14.9 at idle before the cooling fan starts to cycle on and off.

So..........

For fun how about measuring your battery voltage at idle without the cooling fan on. Then check at it 5000 rpm. Then check it at 5000 rpm with the lights on. Recheck all with the cooling fan on. It may just be that running with the lights on might help keep the battery charging while riding.

Click to expand...

interesting theory. Trouble is I have no ways to activate the fan while bike is on idle other then let my bike sit in the garage running till it over heats and fan activates, then test the voltages as you say - is that your test?

regarding keeping the light on to charge the battery better for fan use- my fan never ran while the bike was running only after the bike was stopped. 3rd idea: add a switch so I can switch the fan off as I come to a stop? or 4th idea in all above somehow re wire it to be on a different circuit so it doesnt run with the bike off- interesting

on my rides to date I have kept the light off

as a theoretical question: let's leave the fan out of the question for now and ask first does running with your light on provide a more stable charged circuit keeping the battery fresh longer normally on a Husaberg?

sorry my answers are intertwined but you see my logic in the above - may need a re-write. bottom line I the pencil king am not the one to play with this so my fan is disconnected.