ATF to de-gum an enigine and clutch?

I was talking to a Subaru mechanic and he was telling me when they get a car in that has the motor all gummed up, they replace the engine oil with ATF. Hotrod it around for about an hour, then drain and refill the engine with oil. The detergents in ATF help to break up the gunk in the engine. He said I should try it to see if it would clean out my wet clutch. Run it through the gears for about an hour an see if that helped it to release (it grabs real bad right now).

I wanted to see if anyone has tried this. I searched for ATF and got nothing. Thanks.

I would say no way Jose. It may be time to pull the clutch cover off and have a look at the plates.

atf engine flush

JimmyDean, I am not a profesional mechanic, but the ATF idea does not sound smart to me. ATF is a hydrolic fluid with some lubricating properties. If your clutch is grabby or sticking, I would take it apart and clean/inspect/measure all the plates and clutch basket. My experince with clutches dragging has been a worn clutch basket( grooves worn into the tabs). Good luck, BENDBERG

ok i am a mechanic this was me reading your post 8O
bad idea atf provides very little actual lubricating properties
the reason it cleans so well is that is based on a hydro carbon
at the exstremes i might consider running a engine flush through the motor but i still dont like these especially on older motors as it can destroy some older seals in the motor .
the mechanic who suggested this should be hung by his testicles for doing this .
its a very simple job to pull the cover off and inspect your clutch
just my .2c

cheers doug

jimmy dean you want your arse kicked. first of all my mum is a subaru 'works' mechanic as well and the bloke who i drink with in the pub-how could you entrust your engine to anyone outside of the UHE family?

there are proper engine cleaner fluids out there.

secondly the info sheet quite clearly and unoquivocally states that the sole reason for struggling with neutral and first gear is the wear on the inner drum.

SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEM.

regards

Taffy

Ouch, ok then. I was reading on Thumper Talk about guys who run ATF all the time, I was just going to flush with it. I am converting my bike over to a Rekluse setup after the holidays and new discs are going in with the conversion. I just thought it would be nice if I could get a few more solid rides out of it between now and then without having to wrench on it more than I have the last 2 weeks (Seems like my bike has been apart more than it's been together lately). I don't have a set of calipers to properly measure wear on the discs, so I figure I'll just go all new in the setup.

I asked before I did anything, sheesh

Also, ATF is used in the new 6 speed Corvette manual trans (and quite a few others like my BMW), so it has a lot more than a few lube properties. I am guessing there are a few gears in that box, so it's not THAT odd of an idea. ATF works well because it's lighter than normal gear oil, so BMW uses it for cold weather conditions too.

I'll just let it sit (again) until I do the conversion. Sorry if I offended anyone with my outlaw ideas

Hi Jimmy,

Lots of people use ATF in the transmission of their 2 stroke motorcycle, but none of them that I know of have ever run it in their motorcycle engine. The Husaberg is a motorcycle that shares the transmission oil with the engine, so you better use a very good grade of 4 stroke engine oil in your Husaberg.

Good luck,

Joe

jimmy

i don't think you need new plates unless you really really have done a lot of miles or been brutal. i'm 99% certain you don't need plates.

as has been said above and pointed out by yourself; the ATF is for transmissions whilst bikes share the same oil for engine, clutch and gearbox.

when you fit the rekluse you'll be using the old plates and if i'm not mistaken you don't go into the clutch as such.

Taffy

So, so on the Rekluse, I was told by KTM Northwest that since my bike is a '96 and might have the original clutch, that the clutch grab was more than likely caused by worn discs and it would be a good idea to replace them when installing the Rekluse.

If I understand the installation of the Rekluse I read online, it uses the some if not all if the original clutch discs (depending on the spacing). Am I wrong on this?

Also, if it's not the discs causeing the grab, what should I look to replace in the meantime? As it is, the cable is adjusted all the way out both top and bottom and you can feel the bike pull in 1st (if your not sitting on it) even when warm. I know the cable is stretched, but even with a new cable it doesn't look like it will pull farther than it pulls now (i.e. still going to be partialy engaged). I will buy a new cable if you think it would do the trick o get me riding again before the new year. And if it's not the disks, then what else would I need to replace or buy in addition o the Rekluse setup?

Sorry for being such a newbie at this, it's my first bike and I've only been morotized for about 5 months now. I was a freeride mountain biker in a previous life I couldn't have asked for a nicer first bike though.

JoeUSA said:

Lots of people use ATF in the transmission of their 2 stroke motorcycle, but none of them that I know of have ever run it in their motorcycle engine.

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I agree. I used to always use it in 2 smoke gearboxes (and even in shock absorbers) & I don't think that it caused any problems, but I'd be suspect of putting it near fire in an engine.

I'd agree with Taff in that a cluch that won't release cleanly is often caused by notches worn in the clutch basket where the plates contact it, not by wear in the plates themselves. The notches prevent the plates from coming apart properly when it is released.

So should I assume a new clutch basket and cable would get me riding again until I swap out for the lazy man setup? If so, I will pull it apart tonight, get the parts this week and be riding on Saturday! Thanks.

If the clutch plates are worn it usually will not engage properly and will slip during acceleration. I would at least replace the clutch fiber discs when installing the autoclutch just for good measure. The metal discs (steel or aluminum) inbetween the fiber ones usually last for a long time unless the fiber ones get extremely worn.

Taffy said:

secondly the info sheet quite clearly and unoquivocally states that the sole reason for struggling with neutral and first gear is the wear on the inner drum.

SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEM.

regards

Taffy

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tell ya what, you replace the basket and i'll.......

Taffy

Jimmy,

The bike is a 96, yes? Has it ever had a clutch before?

I agree with Taffy that it very well could be the inner drum, but wait there's more. On the older Berg's there is an adjustment in the center of the pressure plate. This adjustment set's the correct relationship between the clutch push rod and the lift mechanism on the motor. This setting is crucial to get the clutch to work right. On my 94 & 1/2 501 I ended up going to the 97 pressure plate as it was much stiffer, and 350 springs. The stock 501 springs were so stiff that it was exaserbating the problem of the pressure plate flexing when it was lifted for dis-engagement.

So, the first thing I would do if I was you would be to dis-assemble the clutch. Clean all the plates thoroughly and measure them, also check as to whether or not the steel plates are warped. Check the inner drum for heavy grooving, if the grooves are not too bad they can be smoothed out with some emery paper. But hey, if you've got the bucks, replace the inner drum. Also, check the throw out bearing that the push rod rides on, and the push rod itself for wear. If in doubt, measure it against a new one if possible. Pull the lift mechanism out of the motor and check it for play too. You can only pull the lift mechanism when the push rod is out.

Then re-assemble the clutch and check the amount of play in relationship with the lift mechanism. When adjusted properly the lift mechanism should have just a little bit of play before it attempts to lift the pressure plate. I believe that the pre 97's used a nut with an adjustment screw in the middle that I think was held in place with a cotter pin. I know the 97 used shims that went between the rod and the throw out bearing. I'm a little vague on that part of it, but the important part is to get that measurement right or it will not lift the pressure plate far enough. You'll see what I mean when you take it apart, it's a pretty simple design.

And as far as the recluse clutch goes......... I don't know anyone who has one. However, a local KTM shop does not reccomend them as they put allot strain on the trans. Apparently, this particular dealer has repaired some transmissions that were in bikes with the recluse or similar clutches.

And as far as the ATF goes. It is the only lubricant in the transfer case on my F350 4x4. Which means that it is lubricating the out put shaft bearings on a vehicle that is makes about 625 foot pounds of torque, with 300 BHP. So it can handle some big loads, but only in the right instances. It IS super high detergent, I, as well as the United States Armed services use ATF in the fuel tanks of diesel engines to clean the injectors et. al. Basically ATF is 5W, or 5 Winters. The W has nothing to do with weight, and everything to do with the flow properties at very cold temps. I'm pretty sure it has roughly the same flash point as other motor oils, so I don't see why one could not put in ATF and run the motor, AT IDLE until warm and then drain it to help clean out a motor. But the best way to keep a motor gum free is to change the oil often. What I have done in the past is when I had an exceptionally hard race, with lot's of clutch abuse, is to warm the motor, drain used oil, refill motor with fresh oil. Start bike and ride around easy for about 10 minutes and drain. Repeat.

This usually gets most of the residue out of the motor that settled out of the oil. Another thing on your set up would be to be sure and wipe out the area of the side case that goes over the clutch as this is where the clutch debris gets spun onto.

Man, I've got arm pump from typing this!!! Any questions, drop me a line.

Jimmy, sounds like your in the PDX,oregon area, get hold of Bozarth offroad specialties. Rick is a hard core husaberg rider/mechanic and can help you with the clutch set up you are after, and a nice guy as well. Let me know if you can't find him.

BendBerg said:

Jimmy, sounds like your in the PDX,oregon area, get hold of Bozarth offroad specialties. Rick is a hard core husaberg rider/mechanic and can help you with the clutch set up you are after, and a nice guy as well. Let me know if you can't find him.

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He's very cool. I spoke with him on the phone when I was having issues getting my bike started. He will more than likley be helping me with the Rekluse setup when I go to "upgrade" that. He just became a Husaberg repair shop.

The guy that told me how to get my bike running used to race against him. He said he was the fastest dude he's ever seen in the desert.

The best thing to do would be to go a head and inspect the clutch plates and all the related hardware.Whatever you do don`t run ATF in the bike and ride it if you do a clutch will be the least of your worrys.You could use Marvel,put 2qts in the bike and let it sit for a couple of hours,drain and refill and do the same.(or let sit over night)Do not start.The best way would be to do what Taffy and others said,it will be easier in the long run and since you are taking to somebody who helped you about your bike before let him fix or cure it.Hope this helps.

All 3 of the 96 and earlier Bergs I have owned tended to have clutch drag. Even when new. Dirt Bike said it best "With the clutch drag it is like neutral is being held captive". I disassembled the clutch on one of them and carefully inspected plates for warpage and basket for notching. All was good. Watching the clutch operate with the cover off, there was a rediculous amount of flex in the pressure plate. Someone stated that was remedied in 97. I lived with it by running a Magura Lever/Perch with minimal free play and a fresh and lubed cable. My 96 had a Honda Lever/Perch installed by the previous owner. Made the pull easy with the additional leverage, but barely moved the cable. The old big Magura levers pull a bit hard, but move things a lot. I doubt the oil is of any problem. If the above external items are not a problem, I suspect warped plates or a notched basket. With a notched basket, the bike will start pulling much harder as the engine is revved.
Dan

PS Dexron is for sintered metal clutch plates like KTM used to use (Also GM) and type F was for Ford with fiber plates. A friend that used to race for team Green said they used type F in his KX tranny. That was a dozen years ago though and oils have changed a lot. But.....the thought of ATF lubing my crank, rockers, rod, and piston would give me nightmares almost as bad as the old Berg being stolen.

I am picking up a new cable this week and will try that. If it doesn't help, I'll pull it all apart when I get the Rekluse setup and replace anything that needs replacing.

When I asked about ATF, the idea was to drain the oil, refill with ATF, run it through all the gears a few times warm (no more than 10 minutes or so) then drain and refill with oil. Not run ATF instead of oil. The ATF is said to work loose all the crap in both the motor and trans. Been told it works better thn any GUNK remover on the market.

Besides, my old room mate is going to try ATF to clear out his Honda XR250 this wekend. I will let you know the results...

Hello all,
The pre hydraulic Husaberg clutch is indeed prone to dragging. The primary culprit being that of an inadequate pressure plate throw. When additional throw is added the clutch works as that of the later hydraulic unit, albeit requiring more lever effort.

To insure you are getting the most out of your existing set up maximize throw via correct mechanical geometry. Simply insure that the case mounted lever arm is positioned 90 degrees to the cable @ one half of lever travel. If adjustment is required shims may be added or subtracted from the pushrod bore. Said shims carry Husaberg part numbers 230-113-15, 20 and 25.

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards,
Dale