650 jetting for high elevation

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I

Idle

Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
564
Location
Northern California
I sold my bike with the carb that dale jetted.

When riding at 6,000 feet, it worked ok but sounded like chewbacca if I whacked the throttle open.

Anyway, I really liked the power delivery, and it really worked well for sea level to about 4-5k feet where I usually ride.

Thing is I need to jet this other carb, for my usual riding, but also need to set it up for a little group ride I'm doing soon. It's around 6,500'

Supermoto the Rubicon trail


What I'd like to do is get an adjustable air screw like dale had setup, and ¿open? that, and ¿close? the fuel screw to get it close enough to work ok at elevation.

Then can return the screws back where they should be for the 1k-4k elevation for my normal riding. Is this acheviable?

Also, on sudco's site, the pilot jet is called a starter jet? Is that correct?

I'm currently at;

160 main jet
45 pilot jet Wanting a 48
85 leak jet
200 main air jet ¿On the right at the back of the carb?
100 slow air jet ¿On the left "..." (adjustable air screw to be ordered)
OBEKR 3rd clip from the top

I have done the BK mod, and have a 1/2 second squirt currently that only squirts when the throttle is opened from closed.

Dale had pulled the AP plunger out, and it worked well for my riding. No ohhhsht moments and so easy to ride. That's why I set the AP up to only squirt from closed.

Fwiw, I also have had the TPS disconnected for eons.

More fwiw... this 650 has 350 hours on it, and hope to squeak another 100 out of it. (I would like to keep it slightly on the rich side, as it's never ever boiled over or even came close.


Thanks for any help you can give me, as jetting was pretty easy the first time around. I just paid the man and watched him install his kit.
 
the stater jet feeds the choke

in sudcos diagram the pilot jet is called "slow jet #28"

The adjustable PAS part numbers are 012-230 for the screw, and 021-235 for the spring

I would look at changing the main jet or needle position for the higher elevation as the PAS only covers a very small range and doesn't offer all that much adjustability

I think it would be easier and quicker too since the PAS is hard to adjust without removing the bell housing.

with the right 6mm socket changing a main jet is extremely fast
 
Idle said:
I sold my bike with the carb that dale jetted.

When riding at 6,000 feet, it worked ok but sounded like chewbacca if I whacked the throttle open.

Anyway, I really liked the power delivery, and it really worked well for sea level to about 4-5k feet where I usually ride.

Thing is I need to jet this other carb, for my usual riding, but also need to set it up for a little group ride I'm doing soon. It's around 6,500'

Supermoto the Rubicon trail


What I'd like to do is get an adjustable air screw like dale had setup, and ¿open? that, and ¿close? the fuel screw to get it close enough to work ok at elevation.

Then can return the screws back where they should be for the 1k-4k elevation for my normal riding. Is this acheviable?

Also, on sudco's site, the pilot jet is called a starter jet? Is that correct?

I'm currently at;

160 main jet
45 pilot jet Wanting a 48
85 leak jet
200 main air jet ¿On the right at the back of the carb?
100 slow air jet ¿On the left "..." (adjustable air screw to be ordered)
OBEKR 3rd clip from the top

I have done the BK mod, and have a 1/2 second squirt currently that only squirts when the throttle is opened from closed.

Dale had pulled the AP plunger out, and it worked well for my riding. No ohhhsht moments and so easy to ride. That's why I set the AP up to only squirt from closed.

Fwiw, I also have had the TPS disconnected for eons.

More fwiw... this 650 has 350 hours on it, and hope to squeak another 100 out of it. (I would like to keep it slightly on the rich side, as it's never ever boiled over or even came close.


Thanks for any help you can give me, as jetting was pretty easy the first time around. I just paid the man and watched him install his kit.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid Idle you have completely the wrong jetting.
the pilot jet is listed as a 'slow jet'
a starter jet is a choke jet
you would never need to adjust the pilot air screw that you're thinking of buying IF you have the correct pilot jet first up and the recommended pilot air jet to go with it.

the 40PJ is ideal for the 650 and 42 is tops - no more.
you also have the wrong needle for trail riding. you need a D series needle for small throttle openings etc.
try a OB DVR or an OB DVS
the 160 is going to be weak at sea level.
do you have an open can on it?

regards

Taffy
 
My otter carb had a 150 main jet, and it worked well for my riding. The pilot jet was a 48, and rarely needed choke unless it was below 50°f (10°c?) Even at 40°F, it would 8 stroke within 30-45 seconds.

Asfaras the needle, I think I'm sticking with the obekr. I don't do a whole lot of trail riding, mostly fast dirt roads, and paved trips up to the hills.


Thanks for the tips guys.

I've got two exhaust cans. The FS650 had an E1 approved can that had a dog leg sparky inside at the cap. I have had the Krizman sparky can onit for some time now.

It's lost it's packing I'm sure, has about 14k miles onit, and I "clearanced" the inside of it to have room for the 160/70/17

I plan to modify the E1 silencer, except doing a much better job with the clearancing. Then eliminate the dogleg u-turn at the cap. screen screwed into the end to satisfy the ranger.

I heard they blow out/off though, maybe one inside the cap.


Thanks for the part numbers Bushie.
 
FWIW

with both needles on clip 6 at WOT:

a 160MJ on LW needle is = to a 175 on the EKR

145 on LW needle is = to 165 on the EKR

so if you're looking to replicate the 150 at WOT with Dales needle you need approx a 170 MJ on the EKR.
 
Idle!

the above info simply can't be right.

there is no difference in the end diameter of the lineaweaver needle and that of an E series. I have two DL needles and one measured 1.95 at the end and the other is 2.01. dale doesn't have ideal facilities as he would confess.

the E series and the EK at that to be absolutely spot on is 2.01 at the end.

so, they are the same jetting!

to be told they are 20 apart is just stupid but then that is this guy all over...

Taffy
 
I put both needles on clip6 and measured the diameter of the needle at the top of the emulsion tube when the needle is at WOT.

its the length and resulting restrictive area at the emulsion tube that counts , calculate the available area in both situations as a ratio. obviously this is only true for WOT and you also have to consider whether the main restriction is being caused by the needle in the emulsion tube or the main jet but since the diameters are similar in this situation its not important IMHO,

all just FWIW, while i don't claim them to be a 100% accurate analysis my "results" verified reasonably well with 5 wire wide band O2 sensor

you cannot simply measure the diameter of a rod at the tip without also considering its length .. my wife agrees... length is as important as diameter :D

I never understood how someone can claim another mans jetting to be wrong or another mans rod to be too short, jetting is like suspension valving.. the rider has to be happy not the "expert"
 
Last edited:
if they are the same length? which my Lineaweaver needles are! - and then you have them on clip 6 you only have a comparison at the tip.

the only difference then is their girth which is almost negligable.

you need to justify +20MJ in the 160 region.... no chance!

you can't compare a (for example) DVR and a DKR on the same needle clip when they would never run on the same clip.

Idle
Dale's low speed jetting is VERY, VERY rich. take a punt at my jetting kit, it's far better everywhere. I did it a s a complete package - even the choke jet was altered.

regards

Taffy
 
Last edited:
yes that's right taffy I knew you'd get it eventually

its the difference between restrictions at WOT between dales needle and the EKR both on clip 6 at WOT

since we jet the main for WOT and the final tapers on the EKR and the Lineaweaver are similar then it is a valid comparison

you need to get a Dyno and an AF meter :D
 
I never saw that thread. no idea what that is about but at the end of the day the top end power is a result of the MJ and most people should be able to get that right.

ridiculous comment really - even you should know better.

Taffy
 
Idle said:
I'm hardly ever at WOT for more than a second

I can swap the main jet out for my 7,000' trip. Thanks for the part numbers and the other information Bushie..
Click to expand...

me neither :D and its only a rough comparison that certainly doesn't consider all the variables but I found it interesting

there is a difference that is somewhere between 10 and 20 on the main for the same clip positions on dales needle and the ekr

i could have measured the needles at many more points and calculated the overlapping effects of the main jet restriction but someone has already developed a spreadsheet for that ;)

yes swapping the main is what i would do

enjoy the ride! sounds like a fantastic adventure
 
Last edited:

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