450 or 501?

kez · Aug 3, 2006

Which Would You Chose And Why?.
I'm Looking At Either Selling The VOR Or Breaking It To Pay For A Newer Berg.
Have Been Thunking For A While About Building One From The Frame Up,So It Looks Brand New And Has Only Ever Been Riden By Me And So On.
Useing An 41FCR,Possibly Akra System And My Set Of SM Wheels For The Odd Ride Out On The Black Stuff.
The Two I'm Thinking About Are One Of Dales 448's Or A 501 Based On The Newer Engine With A Vortex Type Ignition Set Up.
Looking At Doing A Few Beginer H&H's And Fun Trails With But Still Want A Brute When That Throttle Gets Pinned Open,Especially When The SM Wheels Are On.
Many Thanks
Ols

Lplates · Aug 4, 2006

ok i can only go off my own 501 ,never tryed a 450
501 big tracks open space red hot
tracks bends hills ruts mud ;belive me u will be knackered with in an hour the bike is so powerful and aggressive its to much of a hand full ( 4 me anyway ) thats not to say right place it is a MONSTER .but long days riding a few offs and restarts its to much like hard work
so much so im looking for a change :
this is only my opinion and im past my prime but no armchair racer
hope it helps

kez · Aug 4, 2006

Thats Why I Was Going To Use An FCR41 With Dales Kit And One Oh His Cams/Head To Give Me Loads Of Smooth Power.
Just Wondered What Peoples Opinions Were?

kez · Aug 5, 2006

Nobody Then??? Is This To Broad A Question? Does The 50cc Make That Much Difference Then?

Taffy · Aug 5, 2006

Kez

i have only ridden the 450 down a canyon and yes the 501 (thanks joe and brian!) but they are both more than powerful enough. the 450 comes with kokusan ignition so you don't NEED the vortex.

i would stick to the 450 and you'll get the ignition, better frame, better cam, better carb. then you can stroke it to make it a 520 and just get the right con rod and you'll be away!

you won't smooth that kinda power out i can tell you! i find my tuned 400 to be enough!

all sounds a pipe dream this ....

regards

Taffy

kez · Aug 5, 2006

Your Probably Right,But Was Wondering Why Every One Seems To Rave About The 501 Still?.
Was Going To Use The Latest Bike I Could Find And Go From There. Seen A Few Later 501's With The New Engine,FCR Carb And Kokusan Ignitions On Ebay A While Ago On Ebay.
Was Thinking IF I Were To Do A Later 501 I Would Use Something Like A Vortex To Make Silly HP When In SM/Road Trim And Then At A Flick Of A Switch Go Into Soft(er) Power For Off Roading. Still Thinking Out Loud At This Stage,Still To Find Out How Much Frames/Engines Or Complete Bikes Go For That Require Some Work.
Whats The Differences Between Frames/Years,I'm After Something Thats Got The Basics Ready For Fast Turning.
Was Going To Use A Steering Damper And The VORs Ohlin Forks.

tm-enduro · Aug 5, 2006

kez said:
Nobody Then??? Is This To Broad A Question? Does The 50cc Make That Much Difference Then?

The simple fact is that it is hard to find someone that doesn't like the 501. Some folks find it to make too much power, but no one complains about the type of power or how it is distributed. Personally, I like the longer stroke smaller piston engines, verses the massively over square motors.

kez · Aug 5, 2006

tm-enduro said:
kez said:

Nobody Then??? Is This To Broad A Question? Does The 50cc Make That Much Difference Then?

Click to expand...

Some folks find it to make too much power, but no one complains about the type of power or how it is distributed. Personally, I like the longer stroke smaller piston engines, verses the massively over square motors.

Thats What Dales 448 Is,Its A Long Stroke Small Bore Conversion.
Think I'll Keep Looking On Ebay For Really Cheap 400's Or 501's. Unless Theres Someone Who Know Where I Can Pick Up A Cheap Rolling Chassis From?

husadaddy501 · Aug 5, 2006

hi kez, dont know if they still have it the phone no.s on there, it didnt meet reserve, looks like a good chassis. On the debate.... i can only tell you about my very early 501fc, i think they were more a pure race bike, it EATS 550s and sh..s the bits out, no good in the tight bits but if you want the arse end out and the front end up at the same time thats what you want!
chassis

Taffy · Aug 5, 2006

you sound like you're heading down my raod a little kez. i shan't cast a stone your way and call you a plaguerist... not much anyway!

essentially dale's engine starts with the stroke of a 400 whhich is 60mm whilst i know that the katoom starts with a 64mm stroke for SM.

i have a KTM 450 +2mm piston from woessner in germany. as the engine is down right now, i have checked and i'm sorry to say i may have wasted my money unless i can pull my finger out. the 'land' of the piston is 6mm lower than my current piston. i don't think they do a 130mm rod (currently 124mm C to C) but i will check.

also i MUST have the big valve head on or machine some of the crown of the piston away. so i have a lot further to go yet.

regards

Taffy

kez · Aug 5, 2006

husadaddy501 said:
hi kez, dont know if they still have it the phone no.s on there, it didnt meet reserve, looks like a good chassis. On the debate.... i can only tell you about my very early 501fc, i think they were more a pure race bike, it EATS 550s and sh..s the bits out, no good in the tight bits but if you want the arse end out and the front end up at the same time thats what you want!
chassis

Thats What I Want But In SM Trim,But Stil Want The Smoothness When In Enduro Trim,Thats Why I Was Thinking About A Programmable Ignition Set Up.
But I Was Looking At A Newer Bike Really,Did See That And Thought Long And Hard But Really Its Too Far From Me.

Taffy said:
you sound like you're heading down my raod a little kez. i shan't cast a stone your way and call you a plaguerist... not much anyway!

essentially dale's engine starts with the stroke of a 400 whhich is 60mm whilst i know that the katoom starts with a 64mm stroke for SM.

i have a KTM 450 +2mm piston from woessner in germany. as the engine is down right now, i have checked and i'm sorry to say i may have wasted my money unless i can pull my finger out. the 'land' of the piston is 6mm lower than my current piston. i don't think they do a 130mm rod (currently 124mm C to C) but i will check.

also i MUST have the big valve head on or machine some of the crown of the piston away. so i have a lot further to go yet.

regards

Taffy

Whats The Saying.....Oh Yeah,Imitation Is The Best Form Of Flattery......But Bloody Annoying Though!!! :wink:

Coffin · Aug 5, 2006

I have been lucky enough to get the chance to pound the tar out of all models of Bergs (to the best of my questionable ability :roll: ) over the last several years and I can say that without a doubt the 501 is my all time favorite. I remember being dissappointed at the 2004 Dealer Ride in New Brunswick because I got "stuck" riding the 501 after all the dealers grabbed the newer 450s, 550s and 650s. By the time that we finished our trail ride I was grinning like a fool.

My personal bike is a 550, and I love it, but I would grab the 501 in a heartbeat if I had my choice of bikes to go for a rip on.

Bottom line is that it is a very pleasing Berg configuration.

kez · Aug 5, 2006

Coffin said:
I have been lucky enough to get the chance to pound the tar out of all models of Bergs (to the best of my questionable ability :roll: ) over the last several years and I can say that without a doubt the 501 is my all time favorite. I remember being dissappointed at the 2004 Dealer Ride in New Brunswick because I got "stuck" riding the 501 after all the dealers grabbed the newer 450s, 550s and 650s. By the time that we finished our trail ride I was grinning like a fool.

My personal bike is a 550, and I love it, but I would grab the 501 in a heartbeat if I had my choice of bikes to go for a rip on.

Bottom line is that it is a very pleasing Berg configuration.

Any Reason Why You Like This Over The 450/550/650 Versions? More Torque? Harder Reving? Harder Hitting? Smoother Power?

Coffin · Aug 9, 2006

Hmmm...that is tough to answer. I geuss it is just that it is "middle of the road" between the 450 and the 550. I find there are times that I can pound the snot out of the 450 and I still want more and there are also times when the 550 just seems like a little too much. I found the 501 to be a very nice compromise between the 2 machines.

kez · Aug 9, 2006

Coffin said:
Hmmm...that is tough to answer. I geuss it is just that it is "middle of the road" between the 450 and the 550. I find there are times that I can pound the snot out of the 450 and I still want more and there are also times when the 550 just seems like a little too much. I found the 501 to be a very nice compromise between the 2 machines.

So Its Like A More Powerful 450? Or Just A Revier Top Endy 450?
Hop That Made Scence?

450 or 501?

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