2011 Fork bledding air with oil...!!!

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Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
41
Location
SPAIN
Hi,

Since I bought a new 2011 FE 570, almost every time I bleed the air from the forks, a little of oil is coming out from the bleed hole.

It is like 5 cc or sometimes even almost 10 cc (I guess) coming out from each fork.

Is this normal?

I feel a big diference on the fork after I bleed the air, it becomes "softer" and more precise.

If I continue losing oil like this, afte 20 times bleeding the air I will lose something like 100 cc, which I don´t think it is normal...!
 
Here you can see how the oil is coming out from the air bleeding hole.
Is this normal...?[attachment=0:bzger9tc]IMG_0531.jpg[/attachment:bzger9tc]
 

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The main (lubrication only) chamber air bleed is through the bleed valve port (the side that allows the rubber tipped brass check piston to retract back) for the actual cartridge (so, effectively, the cartridges are not really particularly well sealed :roll: ). Small amounts of main chamber oil gets up into the tiny chamber between that port, and the bleed screw, and sits there. With the bleed screw oriented towards the rear of the bike, oil pools around the bleed screw, you undo it, it comes out with the built up air pressure. Especially if you have the cartridge to cap final orientation that has the port, oriented so oil getting into the tiny chamber, can't find it's way back down and out.

The more rearward oriented your bleed screw / if you are running a large amount of oil to minimise the air chamber, the more oil will accumulate near the bleed screw, also dependent on the cart. / cap orientation I mentioned.

Rotate your fork legs, so the bleed screw is forward. It may be all you need to do.

'Big' air build up, can indicate a few things - misalignment, seal / o'ring problems, or just simply not having the forks extended fully when you undo the bleed screws.

A cartridge problem could be part of it, but it's pretty unlikely - the pressure in the cartridge bladder, is relatively low(generally 1 bar to 2 bar), and if it escapes the bladder, it's doing so into a much larger chamber. And if you had a problem, that was 'unloading' the cartridge oil out in excess ( other than the oil heat expansion / overfill of the cartridge - which, off course, changes your oil quantity in the main chamber), you'd very quickly, feel your forks going from a 'good thing', to crap.

Put your finger tip into some oil, then let a droplet go onto a surface - that droplet, can look like a hell of a lot of oil, considering how little it really is. Put 5 / 10ml into a small holder, tip it out, and that can look like a hell of a lot More oil. It can be surprising.
 
I don't think that's normal.
Over six KTMs and one Hooseyburger ... I never seen that much oil come out of a bleed hole.
At *most* I have seen tiniest leetle, tiny *spritz* of oil vapor that got caught by the released air when I depresseed the fork bleeders or unscrewed the bleed screw.

I would definiately get that checked out. - ET
 
I went to my official Husaberg dealer with the forks in order to check them.

I saw all the "operation".

The mechanic opened the fork, drained the oil from the main cartridge and came out around 320ml, it should be 350ml according to the manual.
The o´ring and seals were apparently in a good condition. (The bike has only 2000 kms).
He discharged the presurized air from the small cartridge, opened and removed the cap with the inside rubber and cheked the oil level, it was too high, too much oil on the presurized cartridge. In both forks.

The mechanic told me that was the reason of bledding air with oil, too much oil in the small cart...!, because of a manufacture mistake...!

In both forks...? Doesn´t convince me.

He installed new all the seals, o´rings and cases.

Filled with new oil to the correct level the small cartridge, and also the big one, presurized the small one with 1 bar of air, and assembled the fork back all together.

I didn´t have the time to install it into to the bike yet.

But I´m not sure if that was the "only" problem, specially after reading what "bearorso" is saying.
Sorry bearorso, I´m spanish and my english is very poor, I don´t understand 100% what you are sying.

Do you mean that oil from the big cartridge can pass to the small one because of a sealing problem?
Or just because I intalled the forks with the air screw pointing to the rear of the bike instead of to the front?
What do you mean with "misaligment"?

Do you think that now I shall install the forks with the air bleed screw oriented to the front? But I would like to install it the same way it was before in order to see if it keeps doing the same.

My fork concern is not only because I was loosing oil, it was because I was feeling a poor performance from them, specially lately.
 
The outer chamber oil gets into the Top of the inner chamber - in that little area between the inner chamber and outer chamber.

Any oil 'overfill' in the damper chamber, goes out the little o'ring sealed, brass coloured, sprung valve, on the cartridge - it's about 22mm below the spanner flats of the top of the cartridge.

So, yes, oil can be ejected from the cartridge, into the lubrication chamber. As a bloke who's worked with suspension nearly all my working life, it makes a bit of a mockery of it being a sealed cartridge - the same goes for the more 'normal' cartridges that use a spring behind the compensator piston. I'm just being a grumblebum, I guess. I take my WP forks, and disable that check valve, making it an absolute sealed cartridge, but it means you build / bleed it properly, just like a rear shock. Ho Hum.

It's conceivable that there could be a damper cartridge leak into that small chamber, below the bleed screw, but, as the mechanic found too much oil in the damper (the bladder would have had to be inserted in a compressed state), and the outer chamber was missing oil from std volumes, I'd be Very surprised if that were the case.

Indeed, that check valve I've referred to, would rapidly allow excess oil out of the damper cartridge. A 'rough' rule of thumb, is that damper oil will expand as much as 10% as it heats up, in normal circumstances, hence the reason for check valve / check ports out of the damper chamber.

And, if you had a damper cartridge leaking oil, from any point, it would soon have your forks working very badly.

If the mechanic took the cartridge out of the fork, he could have shown you the bleed valve, and cycled the cartridge through its travel. If any part of the cartridge were leaking, you'd soon see it. If a leak was that severe, that the cartridge could be reduced to an 'open' style, with it being replenished by the compression / extension of the fork, the front ends actions would be rather sub - par. If not, s**t house! You say the forks showed poor performance. - it could be the lack of oil in the outer chamber, increasing the air spring chamber volume, making it too soft, towards the bottom of the travel. It could be a damper problem. If you communicated that to the mechanic, I would have thought he'd check the cartridge thoroughly. For the cartridge to be overfilled, and stay that way, would indicate that somehow, the check valve port was being blocked. If that were the case, your fork cartridge, would hydraulic lock - eg: the fork would not get it's full travel. I've not come across the bleed / check valve being jammed closed ( though quite a few with it stuck open), though.

If he did a full rebuild, I'd be surprised if you have any more problems. Sometimes, if, as a mechanic, you can't find an obvious problem, it's best to go for a 'replace all the service parts approach'.

As I said, a few ml of oil, on a cap /leg/ clamps, can look like a heck of a lot - try the finger drip test. It can't hurt to rotate the upper legs (though any favourite stickers will be askew) so the bleed valve is frontwards, and to also turn the screw out nice and slow, if you are still using the screw.

Mate, your understanding of English / 'Strine, is a hell of a lot better than my Spanish (I've been there a few times, with little more than 'Hola' (sp?) as my vocabulary, and just relying on a big smile, and a relaxed attitude).
 
Thanks again bearorso.

I installed the forks and went for a ride, only one hour, but could feel a bit better performance, specially going donwhill.

When I arrived to my garage, bleeded the air and not a single drop of oil came out.
But I don´t know if it was due to the short ride I did, or because the problem is solve.

I will try again.

About installing the forks with the bleed screw frontwards, if I do so I can´t unscrew the bleed screw due to the handlerbar. I have the handlerbar in the most fordward position.
I installed the bleed screw in between both extremes, the left fork pointing to the left, and the right one pointing to the right.

Is this very important?
Why it has to be pointing to the front?
 

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