09 450fe problem***

Brendus · May 30, 2009

so i got ready for a ride , warmed the bike up on the stand and coolant started coming out from the overflow. bout 3 hours later after trying different thing found that thermostat is stuffed. anyone else had this problem???

whats the point of having the thermostat on the bike anyway??? has anyone just bypassed it??

Cheers

johny · May 30, 2009

they start to wear into the radiator on some bikes my friends taken out the thermostat and changed all the piping with new from a car accessories store
my own 450 has been fine

Brendus · May 30, 2009

i actually mean that the thermostat inside. so it doesnt open when coolant heats up, so it doesnt spring out.

johny · May 31, 2009

yes i know and my answer is the same you can remove the lot the whole housing if you purchase some radiator hose and fashion it
then there's no chance of the same thing happening
the only problem ive had with mine is the petrol cap valve stuck and the bike cut out so i opened the filler cap and all the pressure was released and it fired straight away and ive had no other problems since

kfx440 · Jun 1, 2009

I've decided to machine up an inline cooler to replace the thermo housing & it works great.
Inside Diameter starts @ 15mm & reduces to 11mm in the center then back to 15mm.

cheers

Brendus · Jun 1, 2009

so its basically just a straight pipe that joins the two hoses together? wat did you do with the hoses that goes from the thermostat housing to the radiator?
cheers

kfx440 · Jun 2, 2009

Brendus said:
so its basically just a straight pipe that joins the two hoses together? wat did you do with the hoses that goes from the thermostat housing to the radiator?
cheers

It's not straight it tapers down to slow the flow so that it can disperce the heat as for the small hose i cut it in half then blocked it of with a plug & a hose clamp. When i have to do the shims i'll TIG weld the small outlet while the radiators are off.
Hey if you need any help i'm only 1 hour away or you can phone me after 7pm on 0423388221.

jockular · Jun 2, 2009

Hi KFX, like the idea, when you say tapers down do you mean that the center most part of the tube is of a smaller bore than the ends? if so, would that not increase the speed of the water flow at the center?
Jock

zeus · Jun 2, 2009

jockular said:
Hi KFX, like the idea, when you say tapers down do you mean that the center most part of the tube is of a smaller bore than the ends? if so, would that not increase the speed of the water flow at the center?
Jock

Hey Jock, The pipe that KFX has put in is much like a venturi. He maybe increasing the velocity of the water as it tapers in but the flow would be reduced due to the smaller diameter

Zeus

jockular · Jun 3, 2009

Hi Zeus, i would have thought that the reason the water velocity increases is because the water pump is try to put through a certian amount of cc's for the rpm, there fore if you decrease the pipe bore the water velocity has to increase to keep up with the pump. you are still moving the same cc's of water as govered by the pump speed, bigger bore, slower water speed, smaller bore greater water speed no? or am i just not getting it?
Jock

Husaden · Jun 3, 2009

Decreasing the diameter increases the speed, and creates a pressuredrop !! The "misunderstanding" arrises as there are 2 types of pumps... Fixed displacement (Your oil pump is a good excample and "Non" fixed displacement (The waterpump is one of them). The latter will just give out lesser flow if met by higher resistance in the system, wherefore he actually acheives what he wants..... less flow. Higher speed only in the small bore part of the reduction/orrifice

Example:
Deadheading the waterpump, the pressure will build up to a certain level and stay there. (Dependent on pump design and Revs.) Its flow is dependent of the sytem it works in.

Deadheading the oilpump the pressure will build up untill somthing breaks.Wherefore a pressure releif is fitted. Flow from pump is constant. (or very close in real life)

Enough of pump theory for today,

Anders, DK

steve · Jun 4, 2009

IMHO Jock and husaden are both correct. The other thing to consider is thet as diameter goes down and velocity goes up the frictional losses increase so you get ultimately less energy delivered through a small pipe than a larger one. Usually short sections of smaller diameter make little difference to the net result. What can cause problems is when the diameter changes suddenly and we get cavitation, which is localised low/negative pressure areas, a whole other can of worms.

Personally I like thermostats. Engines need to be at their correct operating temperature to operate efficiently and minimise wear. Thermostats assist this in a properly designed cooling system.

Steve

johnnycat · Jun 5, 2009

Another thing to think about when removing the thermostat on a fuel injected motor is on a cool day the motor may never reach operating temperature and you will get even worse mileage then you already do.

DaleEO · Jun 6, 2009

Johnnycat hit the nail on the head,

There is a coolant sensor right next to the spark plug. The coolant temperature is part of the parameters that the computer uses to adjust the mapping of the whole system.

It is my understanding that for proper ring sealing, one needs to have about 180 degrees F on the water jacket itself. You need the right amount of heat in the motor to make good power.

Then as Steve mentions there is minimizing of wear. Without a thermostat on a cold day at higher speeds, you can actually start to seize the piston in the bore as the coolant is so cold that it shrinks the cylinder while the piston is very hot. Another way this is called is shock cooling.

If you are having boil over problems simply install the fan kit and have no further worries about it. I just finished the Idaho city 100 which had lots of low speed high load conditions for many hours and my fan was running quite a bit there and I never had a boil over. There were quite a few others that I saw who were not so lucky.

If you want to add a cooling link like kfx440 did then all the better, but, I don't think it would be a good idea to remove the thermostat altogether.

kfx440 · Jun 6, 2009

johnnycat said:
Another thing to think about when removing the thermostat on a fuel injected motor is on a cool day the motor may never reach operating temperature and you will get even worse mileage then you already do.

sorry it took so long to reply but i could not log into the forum. I've done 4 hours on the bike so far with this setup and it runs at a steady 85deg c as for needing a thermostat none of the fuel injected motocross bikes run thermostats & they don't seize up, as for running to cold the climate here in australia is warmer than europe. A few years ago i used to race a mini cooper (1969 model) & it's common with cars that when removing the thermostat you must replace it with a washer with about a 3/8" hole to slow the flow so it gets a chance to cool down in the radiators, this is the reason i've reduced it from 15mm to 11mm & the reduction is tappered from one end to the middle then back to the end this does not speed up the flow.physic's 101 the bigger the hose the more volume it flows & the smaller the hose the less volume.
My reason for this mod was to stop the thermo housing from rubbing on the radiators not overheating problems. It's great to see all this constructive conversation but at the end of the day this is working for me with no problems at all & i've been running test's with my local dealers all is good and i keep my warranty.
cheers

kfx440 · Jun 6, 2009

"If you want to add a cooling link like kfx440 did then all the better, but, I don't think it would be a good idea to remove the thermostat altogether."

As i said i did not make this mod for cooling problems i did this to simply remove the thermo housing from rubbing on my radiator.

Brendus · Jun 7, 2009

not happy, i bypassed the thermostat before and the bike was working. so i installed the new thermostat today and the coolant still boils and spits out through the overflow. i mean it peessss out. im lost for ideas. possible that the water pump isnt pumping the coolant? i checked the coolant through the radiator cap and could see the water flowing.

i guess its back to the shop for me.

Brendus · Jun 20, 2009

i have been regreting admitting to this but the problem was found. the bloody radiator cap.

DaleEO · Jun 20, 2009

Thanks for the update!!

09 450fe problem***

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