03 501 no leccy start

Hi Guys, been lurking on the site for a few days since buying my 'berg. Its in pretty good outward order, about 25 hrs use in total according to owner, which seems about right.
I've been looking through the 'doc' (fanatstic work - well done Taffy and the other contributors BTW...) but haven't manged to find someone with the same symptoms ...
So here goes... She starts very well on the kick, probably 3rd K from cold - 1st when hot, but will just churn and churn (quite fast actually) on the E starter (talking HOT engine here) and doesn't fire up at all !!! Driving me potty as I'm always having to stop the engine for my 2 ten year olds, to pick them up off the floor etc. I haven't checked anything like tappets or even plug yet -- tried to get the plug out yesterday - hmmm special tool required even for that I think (all my decent tools in UK still...:-( ) but I'm thinking it could be the stator not having enough to produce a spark when the battery is busy turning the engine over - or is that not the way it works..? Will try and get Iridum plug as recc'd and special bloody plug spanner today, at least that will be out of the way then.

Anyway, any pointers gratefully received!
Cheers
james

i'd go for the upgraded YTZ7S battery, look at the decomp as being too good at it's job.

everything helps a little - honestly!

others will add their 2 pence but i believe that on this occasion it isn't your ignition.

are you a USAAF?

regards

Taffy

Re: RE: 03 501 no leccy start

Taffy said:

i'd go for the upgraded YTZ7S battery, look at the decomp as being too good at it's job.

everything helps a little - honestly!

others will add their 2 pence but i believe that on this occasion it isn't your ignition.

are you a USAAF?

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Hi Taffy, thanks for the quick reply mate. Glad to hear its prob not the stator! I can get the YTZ7S no probs - but it already whizzes over on the starter pretty well...

Decomp - too good eh? I guess you are talking lifting the exhaust valve too much? Most of the talk seemed to be of it the otehr way round - hadn't considered that ...

If I pull the decomp lever in while cranking, the cranking speed does go right up - so I think it has a fair amount of compression retained (ie not too much loss on the auto decomp..) but of course I'm only guessing at what it should be like as have no other berg to compare to.

No, not USA at all - UK boy moved to NZ to get away from the chavs

RE: Re: RE: 03 501 no leccy start

mate I had the same issue with my '03 400. after the shop spent huge bucks trying to work out the problem (under warranty too, YAY) it turned out to be the decomp cam lobe didn't open the valve enough. any way if ya want give they boys a call on 07 4725 7005 (dunno what the code is to call into aus tho) Or the importer (for astralia) 08 93514700 (again you'll need the aus code). If ya give the importer a buzz they should be able to give ya the number for the NZ importer and hopefully they'll sort ya out.


Oh yeah I descovered that the starter motor on all 3 sizes is the same too so If they tell ya it's ya starter moter just go "nup, whats next?"

cheers,
Joe

RE: Re: RE: 03 501 no leccy start

Flippin' 'eck! I've just been quoted for one of these fancy Yuasa batteries at $NZ300 !!! Yikes!
Thats quite a bit of dosh if it doesn't really need it!! - What's the combined opinion on the matter..?

RE: Re: RE: 03 501 no leccy start

use the internet mate. should be cheaper with a search.

regards

Taffy

Hi,

also check that you have 12V on the white cable to the ignition module (if SEM system)when you hit the "lady button". The 12 V here boosts the ignition when cranking with the electric starter and lowers the rev. where the spark will appear.

/Christer

Hi,

also check that you have 12V on the white cable to the ignition module (if SEM system)when you hit the "lady button". The 12 V here boosts the ignition when cranking with the electric starter and lowers the rev. where the spark will appear.

/Christer

RE: Re: 03 501 no leccy start

Try this link for the YUASA battery -
http://www.tristatebattery.com/advanced ... 7S&x=0&y=0

RE: Re: 03 501 no leccy start

I have found that My 07 will not start right up with the electric button when the bird is warm unless I pull out the Hotstart button. I even have to do this in 40 Deg F. temps. How does it start while cold?

RE: Re: 03 501 no leccy start

jwilly

with the correct jetting-i.e. leaner and nearer ideal: your bike wouldn't need the hotstart.

just thought i'd let you know.

i fell about 12 times yesterday racing and it started once on the fourth kick the other couple of times it was first time. the other 9 it carried on running on it's side.

regards

Taffy

Hi Fellas,
Just a little update:
Went out and bought 2 of the ND Iridium pluigs as suggested. Couldn't get a battery at anything near teh right price - hmm, wonder why they're so dear in NZ??

But, hooked up a large fully charged car battery and paralelled it to the berg one. Had already got her started on the kicker and let her warm up.

Unfortunately no deal on the Button, even with the new plug and meaty power suppply.

I checked the compression with finger over spark plug hole - which nearly blew finger to bits so am assuming the auto decomp isnt 'working TOO well' as Taffy had suggested - or is this not scientific enough a measurement paradigm...?

One thing I did notice was finger did not smell of fuel - tried to give it loads by repeatedly cranking the throttle grip before pressing button but no start and still no smell of fuel - do these carbs not have accel pumps?

Tried pouring a bit of neat fuel down plug 'ole - and it seemed to like it a bit more - but not enough to get started.. :-(

Any comments / ideas??

Ta
james

I'm beginning to think the auto decomp doesnt work properly - how is it supposed to know that the engine is trying to start by the starter? Are you supposed to use the bar lever? Is it supposed to latch?

i had a similar problem in the summer of 2005. i did a race and borrowed a FC470. back to dell orto - the bad 'ol days!

anyway, wouldn't start. pulled the choke jet. blocked. used a wire from a wire brush, wouldn't even go through. so i ordered another and it started third kick.

try it. float bowl off, look for a very long jet in the corner of the bowl. that's the choke jet.

BTW, i used to mention this a lot but nobody ever seems to correspond as to how they got their bikes to start, so we're rarely any wiser about other peoples woes - just or own!

regards

Taffy

mine very rarely starts without the choke and it never colder than 20* C up here.

check your decomp tho. the guys were telling me about a mod that was done to a few '03's on the decomp arm at the top of the motor. Sorry can't remember what the mod was tho.

Taffy said:

jwilly

with the correct jetting-i.e. leaner and nearer ideal: your bike wouldn't need the hotstart.

just thought i'd let you know.


regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

I don't mind the bike running a little fat at 5500-6000 feet above sea level. This problem is not an issue running on my property. About 300 feet. IMHO a bike that will run at nearly sea-level and at 6000 feet above sea level with the only nuisance being having to use my hot-start to lean up a bit , Well I guess I will have to just live with it!!

Franz said:

I have a 97 FE501E, and I think a lot about getting a newer one, like a 450 from '04 on. You never know, old stuff is prone to break.

snip: Without decomp, BTW, it is dysfunctional.
unsnip...

Franz

Click to expand...

How do mean "Without decomp, BTW, it is dysfunctional." ?? Do you mean that you use manula decomp when you start - either with leg or button? Or do you mean you have had probs before with the auto-decomp - which you have now fixed?
thx
James

Taffy said:

i had a similar problem in the summer of 2005. i did a race and borrowed a FC470. back to dell orto - the bad 'ol days!

anyway, wouldn't start. pulled the choke jet. blocked. used a wire from a wire brush, wouldn't even go through. so i ordered another and it started third kick.

try it. float bowl off, look for a very long jet in the corner of the bowl. that's the choke jet.

BTW, i used to mention this a lot but nobody ever seems to correspond as to how they got their bikes to start, so we're rarely any wiser about other peoples woes - just or own!

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Thanks Taffy - I'll try try this - and if I ever get it to bloody well work off the button, I'll be sure and let you all know how I managed it!! Don't worry..

jcsh said:

Franz said:

I have a 97 FE501E, and I think a lot about getting a newer one, like a 450 from '04 on. You never know, old stuff is prone to break.

snip: Without decomp, BTW, it is dysfunctional.
unsnip...

Franz

Click to expand...

How do mean "Without decomp, BTW, it is dysfunctional." ?? Do you mean that you use manula decomp when you start - either with leg or button? Or do you mean you have had probs before with the auto-decomp - which you have now fixed?
thx
James

Click to expand...

I don't have a manual decomp. The reason for is that, when the head blew up a year ago, I sent the motor to HMS to get it fixed with as little money as possible, and the - older - head they used is set up for an automatic decomp - that's at least what I think. But: the 'sending' unit, the part of the kickstart mechanism that triggers the device, is missing, because in 97 it simply did not have one. There is no cable leading from the cylinder head to either case or handle bars.

So all it takes is to fiddle around with the kickstart to move the piston slightly past TDC and then give is a serious kick. No problem if you grew up with mean Rotax engines in early 4-stroke KTMs or XR 600's.

I hope this clarifies the matter. If not, I am more than happy to accept an explanation why the bike has never failed to start right away - and here I knock on wood - so far ...

Franz