FE 501 2002 - Ignition Timing - Decomp - Starting Problems

ede · Mar 31, 2017

Hello,

I'm from Germany and already a member for a while (2015) and reading your posts with interests.

I bought a FE 501 model 2002 a while ago. Since I own the bike there's permanent trouble with it. I had it already in a former Husaberg workshop to get the engine fixed (ball bearings, sealings, etc.), but finally I received the bike from the shop as non-runner. They couldn't get it started. Long story short, now I'm giving myself a try to get the bike alive again. Thanks in advance for any help.

When I received the bike from the workshop I could get it started using starting fluid. I took a short ride but at full throttle the engine back fired and couldn't get started again.

Problem with starting:
* starter motor cannot spin the engine over TDC
* the best one could get with the kickstarter was a single misfire, then for a while nothing

So my assumption is there is a problem with the auto decomp mechanism and with the ignition timing. I cleaned the carburettor first, to make sure there is everything o.k.
Carburettor is clean - but nothing better.

I then checked the ignition timing, which seems to me completely wrong when engine is in TDC (picture below).

zaga · Mar 31, 2017

Hi

You have the most common problem with earlier BERGS, that a lot of owners have, and it is vey frustrating

When you get it right, it will start very well, a lot of the times it's not a big problem, but it's a lot of small tune problems.

So the problem with e-start you can fix it with a stronger spring for the auto decomp, that Taffy will sell you. You can also update the auto decomp for a newer one. You can also update the starter with a beffy one and you can use a YTZ 7S battery

Are you frustrated already ??

Start with the spring, that is the cheapest thing

About the timing, I'm sending you one doc that I've made some time ago. This is a method using a strobe light, that is the most correct, because with this CDI's you never know.
If you have any difficult let me know, and I will try to explain better.

Some times the start problem can be solved just turning the idle screw, some this the idle is just too low and the bike won't start. As a start configuration you can use a 4mm drill and measure the height of the carb slider.

Off course, you must check the values od the stator, valve clearance, etc ...

When you get it right, it will put a smile on your face

Cheers
ZAGA

Taffy · Apr 1, 2017

if the bike is at TDC in the photo and you have the two lines where they are in the photo....you have a big problem!

it is the wrong flywheel.

the correct flywheel has two lines yes but they are just before TDC. you mark a third one and tipp-ex it white.

regards

taffy

ede · Apr 2, 2017

Hi Zaga,

thanks for the good advices. The manual you made is great! The reason for the weird timing I guess is found. First I thought someone installed a different crank, or that the crank could be broken... The woodruff key on the crank got sheared off!

ede · Apr 2, 2017

Hi Taffy,

thanks for your help. I also thought about the flywheel could be the wrong one - some time ago I already bought one of yours - comparison below - looks like the marks are similar to the mark on your flywheel. So the flywheel is probably o.k.

ede · Apr 2, 2017

Woodruff key is:
Standard DIN 6888
3x5x13mm
KTM Part Number: #0888030050

With new woodruff key and Taffy's flywheel the timing mark looks about at the right position - just the stator seems to be at wrong position... maybe that's what caused the backfire at full throttle... and therefore the sheared woodruff key... I don't know.

Taffy · Apr 2, 2017

check that the magnets are in the same position inside the flywheel. look at them through the potting.

Taffy

ede · Apr 8, 2017

Thanks Taffy, I'll do so.

I guess I got the issue with the weird timing...

About the decomp-issue:

The decomp lever shows some wear at the contact area. It also touches the bearing (pic 2) and wears out there too. Somehow the lever is fitted tight between the shoulder touching the bearing and the end in the nut of the camshaft. When pressing it slightly towards the camshaft gear/away from the bearing if moves easily. But after a few times it rests again halfway.

I bought a decomp and measured its length (pic 3) - It seems to be a little more short than the one installed - about min. 1mm, but not more than 2mm. Will the spring hold the device in place? Is there a reason why not to install the shorter decomp device?

Taffy · Apr 9, 2017

if the camshaft centre protrudes through the sprocket by around 0.2mm you are OK to fit the later decomp. if the shoulder protrudes through by 2.2mm then you must have the shoulder machined down by 2.0mm OK?

your photos don't show me the camshaft boss clearly because picture 2 is an 'end on' photo.

regards

Taffy

ede · Apr 24, 2017

Thanks Taffy, I'll check it.

Before installing the new lever, I started inspecting the issue, to figure out what exactly caused the problem (sometimes the electric start could spin the engine, sometimes not). The old decomp-lever doesn't move the full angle in certain situations. I think that's because the camshaft including the camshaft-bearing (ignition side) have an axial play of about 0.4mm (see picture below left). On the camchain-side the camshaft slides inside the inner ring of the bearing (picture below right). The bearing (camchain-side) itself is fix. When the camshaft moves, the decomp-lever wears against the bearing and the lever stucks. The decomp-spring is not strong enough to get over that point, even not when it's preloaded. When pushing the camshaft a little to the ignition-side, the decomp-lever moves quickly.

Anyway, since the new decomp-lever is shorter, I hope that even a little axial play will not cause the lever to stuck again.

Taffy · Apr 24, 2017

6458d1491125565-fe-501-2002-ignition-timing-decomp-starting-problems-004_ignitiontimingmarks_02.jpg

the white line on the stator should be in the middle...not over on the right.

infact, the white line should be just a little to the LEFT OF CENTRE as you look through the hole.

Taffy

ede · May 2, 2017

Continuing replacing the autodecomp device I split the camchain. The sealing surface of the head looks a dirty. I'll clean it. The valves seem to seal properly.

ede · May 2, 2017

...inside smaller piston than expected

ede · May 3, 2017

The decomp lever was about 2mm too long - that caused the wearout at the decomp flyweight.

ede · May 3, 2017

Changed the bearings... homemade style in the kitchen.
(Don't worry - no hammer was used... with a little heat the inner ring of the bearing goes easily)

ede · May 4, 2017

Is the setting correct?

mark on idler shaft in the center of crankshaft marks
camshaft lobes pointing downwards
camshaft sprocket bold in line with cylinder

zaga · May 4, 2017

Yeap [emoji106]

Enviado do meu iPhone usando o Tapatalk

ede · May 5, 2017

Thanks Zaga,

I'll clean the sealing surfaces and then I'll put new gaskets/silicone. Then I'll check the valve clearance.

In the meantime I can check the ignition timing. I put the engine in TDC, the flywheel marks are on the left from the ignition cover bolt. I checked your ignition timing manual. In the picture below I put a virtual line equidistant to the right on the flywheel - looks like it's close to the center of the ignition cover bolt. The stator mark is a little left of that virtual line. Is that the right position to start from?

I need to order a timing light with adjustable ignition advance first, before I can test it.

zaga · May 5, 2017

HI

It's like this, put the engine in real TDC, then mark a line on the flywheel.

That line is drawn from the centre of the flywheel to the centre of the top cover bolt.

That line (mark) will be your reference when you will be using the strobe gun.

For now, as a starting point, you position the stator at that virtual line position (equal distance from the existing lines).
You don't know how it will be the correct position after you use the strobe light (it will vary from bike to bike), this is a starting position.

Your reference on the engine casing will always be the middle of the cover bolt)

Please don't confuse the lines on the flywheel with the lines on the stator, the line that you have to mark is the line on the flywheel.

Hope I've made some sense

ZAGA

ede · May 8, 2017

Thanks Zaga,

timing light is ordered - I'll check it very soon.

Instead of the original ignition coil I got the bike with ignitech ignition setup (pic below). It's a battery powered system with programmable ignition advance. There are 2 curves with different ignition advance values stored on the device (Curve A and Curve B, see pics below).

Curve A: 22° - 47° advance with rev limiter at 9.700 rpm
Curve B: 22° - 39° advance with rev limiter at 15.000 rpm

Both have the same base advance angle of 10°.

Does those values make sense to anybody?
I actually expected 36° to be the maximum advance. Between 0 - 2000rpm the curves looks strange to me too. Maybe at 1000 rpm the advance is set higher for better idling, but does it have to become less between 1000-2000 rpm?

FE 501 2002 - Ignition Timing - Decomp - Starting Problems

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