450 and 470

WArdogG · Apr 10, 2014

Hey guys, some interesting things I found fiddling with some 450 and 470 cases.

I have two sets 450 casings, one case is cracked.

Case 1 has part number 810 3000 3000
Case 2 has part number 810 3000 3100

One case I think is from 2004 model(3000),and the other 2005 or later.

Part number in manual is different format 810 3000 0144 for 2005 and later, I don't have part manual for 2004.

Case1 (3000) was machined off to fit an oil jet for piston lubrication, but the hole was never drilled and the jet not fitted.
Case2 (3100) has got the oil jet
The 470 case has only a tiny hole drilled, no jet.

zaga · Apr 10, 2014

Hi

I don't think there was a 470 after 2003.

Your engine number are 04 +

The 810 means it's a 450, but you should had one number first, that would indicate the year

Cheers
ZAGA

zaga · Apr 10, 2014

The number should be

X-XXX-XXXXX (year)-(engine CC)-(serial number)

Search for one post about engine numbers, I have there a file

ZAGA

WArdogG · Apr 10, 2014

One of the 450 cranks has the proX conrod fitted.

http://husaberg.org/mechanical/14349-fe450-con-rod-kit.html

ProX conrod plus Wossner piston leaves the piston deck level with the liner. When I put that same 450 crank/piston/liner in the 470 case, the deck is still level with the liner.
Also level when I swap the crank assy between the two sets of 450 casings.

So I will then assume the 470 and 450 cases have same height.

I thought the 450 piston would have been about 2mm under the liner edge in 470 cases, since the 470 has longer stroke, but then the 470 has smaller deck height, so I suppose that's where the difference came in.

WArdogG · Apr 10, 2014

Yes Zaga, you are correct, the 470 is a 2002 model.

I'm trying to see between these engines, if any of the conrods should be 120mm centre to centre, or 119mm.

And if the cases had different heights, etc.

WArdogG · Apr 10, 2014

Oh yes, Zaga,I found the number you are referring to is on the outside of the engine. The first number is 4, so it is 2004 model.

WArdogG · Apr 10, 2014

...So now I'm thinking of putting the 470 crank into the 450 cases on my rebuild, with the newer head with the cheaper valves...

Now I have to check if the flywheel off the 450 fits on the 470 crank...

WArdogG · Apr 10, 2014

hacker33 said:
On the first picture (with the prox rod and piston) you showed 2004 engine.

In 2005, they changed the cooling holes to a wider.
Pic show 2005-2008 holes.

hacker33 said:

So I wonder if one should make the holes on '04 bigger like '05?
I don't know of overheating issues, so it should be okay to leave it as is?

hacker33 · Apr 10, 2014

WArdogG said:
So I wonder if one should make the holes on '04 bigger like '05?

I would like to enlarge the holes to those of the 2005 in engine cases and cylinder head.

WArdogG · Apr 10, 2014

I am considering it, maybe I will just drill an extra set of holes.

bushmechanic · Apr 11, 2014

fwiw zagas thread

http://husaberg.org/mechanical/17108-engine-numbers-pre-2004-database.html

WArdogG · Apr 11, 2014

As soon as I get me a scale, I will check the balance factor between 470(2002) , 04' and '05 450 cranks.

I noticed at some stage, I think it was in the 2004 parts manual(found it!), there was a different part number for cranks and c/b weights, between the FC and FE models, on both the 450 and 550 engines.

I wonder if they have different balance factors and c/b weights between FE's and FC's...?

Taffy · Apr 12, 2014

the 470 finished I believe in 2002 but there were a few hundred came back from the USA and were mainly sold in Sweden and the UK as our laws allow them to be registered here.

I would drill any extra holes that way the holes are clean with no edges. also small means heat is taken away quickly because the coolant moves faster! so be careful what you wish for.

regards

Taffy

WArdogG · Apr 14, 2014

Looking at the Wossner catalogue, the deck height for 450 piston is 24.3mm and 22.6mm for the 470, which gives a difference of 1.7mm. Stroke for 450 is at 57.2mm and 60.1mm for the 470, which gives a difference of 2.9mm. So the 470 bigend pin is located 1.45mm higher from the crank center(@tdc, and obviously lower @bdc).

So there should be about .25mm gap between the top of 470 piston and edge of the liner with a 119mm rod.
So, having a 120mm rod will have the 470 piston sitting .75mm above liner.

(Would this be considered the 'dome' , as Wossner catalog states a +5.6cc 'dome', but I know the 470 piston to be flat topped? FWIW, it seems the total cc for 100mm bore and .75mm stroke does in fact give about 5.7cc...)

So, if I use a 119mm rod on the 470, should I have 1mm taken off the head? Or machine the top of the casings & liner, or .5 off the head and .5 off the liner?

Or should I have paid more attention in math class?

zaga · Apr 15, 2014

WArdogG said:
...So now I'm thinking of putting the 470 crank into the 450 cases on my rebuild, with the newer head with the cheaper valves...

Now I have to check if the flywheel off the 450 fits on the 470 crank...

Hi

The 400 and 470 cases are the same.

The flywheel I think they are a bit different on the crank journal, I'm planning on solving that with a lathe, it's been one stand by project for me (for 2 years now

) to fit the kokusan ignition to a SEM bike.

Cheers
ZAGA

WArdogG · Apr 15, 2014

It will be interesting to see your results, Zaga.

450 and 470

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