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Suspension Suspension and Handling Forum - bouncy bouncy!

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July 31st, 2014, 10:25 AM   #1
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I Ride: Husaberg FE501e 2003
BEARUP machine


I've been working on the idea for a couple of years now of making a unique machine. one in which I can stand and move the bike over to the extremes of angle while also still being able to sit down.

essentially, we can lean a bike way further STOOD than we can SAT.

if we're in the sh** on a MX type bike we can't lean it far.
if we are stood we can lean it a bit further

so, I'm designing a bike that will allow trials riding but with sitting as well.

those of you that can play chess will be thinking of a single 'move', a single 'idea' but I'm going to try and interconnect 3 or 4 fairly radical ideas into one machine.

this type of riding is called BEARUP riding

I'll put up some photos soon but if anyone wants to guess what it'll be then feel free to say it!

BTW, I packed up both racing enduro and rugby just to take this and another project forwards. so as I say this is two years in the making!

frame with the underside of the headstock missing, the downtube mostly gone and just a little left

two headstocks 'mating'



Last edited by Taffy; July 31st, 2014 at 10:44 AM.
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July 31st, 2014, 01:03 PM   #2
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! cool, keep us posted
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August 5th, 2014, 10:59 PM   #3
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step two this week has been to get things sorted. I've kept the HEADSTOCK only of my original 2002 FE400e and cut it off. I'm going to weld this on thwe front of the frame I have that is spare.

this SHOULD mean (I hope!) that I can go for an annual MOT and they will see the headstock/frame number, the engine number and then give me my annual certificate of roadworthiness. well we can hope anyway!

I've sent the headstock and the spare frame away to be shot blast back to the metal. I've bought a digital spirit level, I have an infra red temp sensor which I will try and use to weld the frame straight
as well as an old fashioned plumb bob....

i have phoned three frame straighteners up and they have all tried to scare me with stories of "the last man who tried to weld his frame up without a Jig: died (probably of old age and natural causes!) what bunkum.

I have received a rough estimate of 40 hours work!

so, local fabricators and bike buffs 'steelcraft' have lent me a huge boiler plate

upon which all this is to be welded. the idea is that I will measure everything down and on to the plate. then tack weld it with MIG weld and then hand it over to the TIG experts at steelcraft.

I also got some 1" steel bar which I can run through the headrace bearings and down to the boiler plate. this should give me the accuracy and frame alignment.

I've asked some three weeks ago for a pair of special 'V blocks' upon which to sit the swing arm pin but alas they are very slow. they have a week left! these are something that can sit close into the frame and needs to be tall and slim x 2.

the target is to get the new headstock angle to 23.5d instead of the 2002 frame's 28.5d. luckily I can screw the new headstock next to the 'old' frame by using the louvre rod hole and then I spend ages mulling it all over.

I've done the drawings. yes I know that we have computers but I have drawn it so that I can measure horizontally as well as 90d to the angle of castor etc and anywhere and anytime.

I CAN'T GET THAT WITH THE COMPUTER - not at my level of skill!

so what is involved in it?
well I've taped loads of A4 sheets of paper together and drawn the front edge of the headstock. from that (as my basepoint) I have drawn the original headstock angle down onto the ground at 28.5degrees. everything is 1 to 1.

I've also marked where the front wheel spindle would be. and from the middle of that I've drawn straight down to the 'ground' and that is where the tyre is in contact.

then, I've drawn the new headstock angle from the front wheel spindle both UP and DOWN at 23.5d.this means the headstock must move 78mm ahead.

this means that the front wheel will be in the same place as before but that the headstock is 78mm forwards.

but this isn't the end of it. the front wheel trails a mark on the ground created by a line through the headstock down to the ground. it needs to be that distance behind it still.

with the new steeper headstock, that mark on the ground is nearer to the front wheel. so, calculating the old headstock mark to be 183mm ahead of the tyre contact I check again and realise that the headstock must now move forwards at 23.5d a further 14mm and that means I'll have the same trail as before. we are now at 92mm headstock forwards of old headstock at 23.5d.

there is then one more calculation to make and that is the amount of trail if I were to change the triple clamps?

the 2002s handle nicely with 20mm offset. 22mm (std) is too little and 18mm is a little heavy for 'Joe Average'.

then we have to 'guess' what would the offset be with the new angle. I estimate that it will be anywhere between 11 and 15mm offset but most likely 13mm. if the clamps were 22s and they are going to be 13s then for the front wheel to be in the same place again I need the headstock a further 9mm forwards at 101mm or 4" in old money!

I settle for 100mm as 1mm between friends is nothing!

so starting with 100mm and with the least offset KTM do/did which is the KTM125 and 250SX clamps from about 2003. they are 14mm.

luckily I still have my set from 2005 and they are of course FREE!

if i'm lucky the bike is going to be very nimble and light. I'm hoping that 14mm offset will be exceptionally light and that 11-12mm offset will make the steering very, very FAST but still light enough.

the gap from the bars to the rider, footrest position etc must now be calculated.

at this point I've only told you part of the story. more to follow....



Last edited by Taffy; August 14th, 2014 at 12:46 AM.
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August 13th, 2014, 11:07 AM   #4
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over the past week I've had the full frame shot blasted as well as the head stock of my old bike frame. the swingarm pin has been mounted on V blocks trued with a line drawn down the middle and between a plumbbob and the laser light I hope to get the frame sitting true ready to weld.

I've had a pair of alloy spacers made to sit in the bottom and top of the clamps right on the axis and by shining the beam down the middle I hope that we can get the new headstock sitting over the middle line of the bike.

I hope....

I'll be tacking it with my MIG and then passing it to steelcraft to finish off with TIG. the welding rods being used are special ones for Chrome Moly and have proven really hard to get hold of without buying 5KG of them.

I managed to get 1KG though from a company called Nozzles. I had asked Fowlmere engineering who couldn't help when I went there for a bottle of 10% argon for my MIG but they didn give me FOC a copy of Kurt Nicholls turns out it is his dad's business and now run by Kurt's other two brothers!

I've drilled the 'full' frame in order to let fuel through into the spine. drilling later won't be feasable. so I drilled two holes in the front, then through them I drilled about 10 holes at the back. the two holes will be welded up later.

the frame is to be painted in ordinary cellulose paint because I get the feeling it is going to be cut and welded many, many times yet! colour is a really bright almost floerescent yellow.

i've had trouble locating the kind of neck and cap I wanted to fit. I wanted the thread on the outside and a 'Kerch' type thread but there's nothing out there it seems so I've gone for the old fashioned bike chrome cap with the two opposed fingers like a car.

the idea is to put the original FE400 engine into this frame along with carb.

I've ordered special 3" longer throttle cables, also some straight hose for the left coolant pipe, the horizontal one will have to have a simple extension for now.



Last edited by Taffy; August 14th, 2014 at 09:03 AM.
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August 13th, 2014, 12:25 PM   #5
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I'm not quite sure what you are building but looking forward to the end result.
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August 14th, 2014, 09:03 AM   #6
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I'm not sure either!

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August 14th, 2014, 10:03 AM   #7
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boy somebody has too much time on his hands! GET BACK TO WORK!
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August 14th, 2014, 10:16 AM   #8
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Well Taffy,
i am also not sure what you are building and very curious what it will become.
Are you like bushie a wizard?

Grtz Rens
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August 14th, 2014, 10:28 AM   #9
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I can't read Taffy.... Too much typo's ,
No...w where's me glasses
I come from bad school
I need more pictures dude
Keep up the good work wat ever ends result will be
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August 14th, 2014, 11:19 AM   #10
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I Ride: Husaberg FE501e 2003
it's a hybrid between a trials bike and a trail bike. so it's a troll bike LOL!!!! should suit one ozzie I know then...

it's for people who stand up

people who do really tough technical stuff not just wussie flat plains stuff.

I'm talking Motel Hill - Brecon Beacons, Moab (a lil ol place in a lil ol country!), talkin Hell's Gate in Italy, I'm talking most of all about KARL'S DINER!!!!

I'm not sure it has a racing application to be fair.

I did warn you all at the beginning that this is being told after the event in weekly intervals. so I know the result!



Last edited by Taffy; August 14th, 2014 at 11:23 AM.
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