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Suspension Suspension and Handling Forum - bouncy bouncy!


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November 22nd, 2014, 08:41 PM   #31
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I have seen pictures of a similar frame modification for Canadian Ice racing for cr500's and Kx500's. As far as I understand a new steering head was welded in front of and at a steeper angle to the stock steering head, the stock steering head was kept intact. I have seen this in Cycle Canada magazine (which I have, but have not been unable to find the issue to post the picture). I have googled this but could not find a picture. Also Canams from 1973-1978 and even up to 1981 with additional parts had an ingenious adjustable rake steering head where the rake could be changed 5 degrees in 1/2 degree increments.
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November 30th, 2014, 01:02 AM   #32
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If you stick to just the fuel in Frame, or even if you go with a mini tank, you could run the seat all the way up to the headstock like the vertemati used to have.

Keep it narrow at the front to maintain handling with just enough padding up top to prevent castration.
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November 30th, 2014, 03:41 AM   #33
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Cheers Cypher!

I was in your neck of the woods two weeks ago during the RAC. CHIRK, Pontfadog etc.

I hope that that is all in hand Frazer. the petrol leeks appear to have been caught now but I'm relaying this story three months behind as an 'as it happens' story!

with the leeks stopped we can move forwards at least.

Huscan
it would be daft, plain daft to change the rake 5 degrees! maybe +2.5d and -2.5d from a given angle but not 5d from the correct angle. that would change the wheelbase by 4".

anon
anyway, the bike is perfect as is. I do have one regret and that is that I didn't lower the spine of the frame from the start. but I feel that to have overcome what?....... 10 things on a small budget isn't to be scoffed at and we still have miles to go.

I knew I would be judged on how "pretty" the bike was. I find it really really funny. I feel like a pretty bird being stared at at the disco and realise just how shallow people are.

instead of asking me how it handles people ask for photos......

sorry folks but I did say clearly at the beginning what you would be like and you haven't failed to disappoint me! they say this is one of the more eclectic sites but the maestros are disappointed with the students......

can we talk about gearing please? LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

regards

Taffy
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November 30th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #34
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Canams' ingenious system is actually 6 degrees.


Useful for MX, Desert, flattrack, ice racing, roadracing or even trials Geometry.

I looked up the meaning of "daft" absurd, preposterous, ridiculous, ludicrous, farcical, laughable;
idiotic, stupid, foolish, silly, inane, fatuous, harebrained, cockamamie, half-baked, crazy, cockeyed

[IMG][/IMG]
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November 30th, 2014, 03:25 PM   #35
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great pics huscan

hey taff ya bum looks big in the picture LOL

how about a video to demonstrate the handling ?

or is that too hard
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December 1st, 2014, 01:24 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by huscan View Post


Canams' ingenious system is actually 6 degrees.


Useful for MX, Desert, flattrack, ice racing, roadracing or even trials Geometry.

I looked up the meaning of "daft" absurd, preposterous, ridiculous, ludicrous, farcical, laughable;
idiotic, stupid, foolish, silly, inane, fatuous, harebrained, cockamamie, half-baked, crazy, cockeyed
29 degrees? jeez! 31 degrees????
and then they entered the ark 2 by 2 said Noah............

Nah! it can't work because we have learnt in the mean time that offset has to change with head angle.

IF and it is a BIG IF

"IF" they had had these cups and different offsets (somehow) then it could have worked. too many things changed at once. as the head angle changed so did the wheelbase and the weight distribution. that's phuqed up.

that's why nobody else did it. even today, nobody does it. it has to be micro-managed byt he manufacturer first and left for the idiots after they have bought it. we still manage to wreck their work - almost without trying.....

handling has moved on from a 70s mag that says you can do ice speedway, trials, MX, etc etc.

regards

Taffy

Last edited by Taffy; December 1st, 2014 at 01:28 AM.
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December 4th, 2014, 03:36 AM   #37
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well I now have the radiator and have fitted it. what a pallava that was!

the guy that did it was....well useless!

he didn't follow instructions but luckily the boys at steelcraft have gone in behind him and sorted it. sorted it so it will fit and so I can try it!

basically the rad was too tall and wouldn't fit between the frame and over the exhaust headers?

here is the bottom view

just misses the headers now. could be made a little better for flow if it presents a problem?

the top view shows how close it is under the frame. it misses by 2mm


the rad inlet is touching the tank and will have to be dealt with. doesn't look much but I bet the interference is by 3mm or more but as both parties have flex it looks 'ok' from here. not good though!


cock ups multiply in this photo

the tank didn't go near enough to the frame to give the rad mounts support, the cap is Japanese style when I asked for european style.

however the fact that the rad just touches the forks on full lock is down to me. but when trying to design it I spent all my time getting the specialist to understand the functions of a rad! it reached a point where I just said do it!

you can't see it but the brackets were welded 7mm off centre so the rad is 14mm wider one side than the other. easily repairable though....

the brackets are 7mm wide - so he measured to the wrong edge of the brackets. I could take it back but he's a Londoner with attitude. he'd just screw me on some job cost technicality....

anyway, I'll be trying it in the next few days. still with the wrong cap on. still with the tank on and no attempt yet to use the 'fuel in the frame' etc yet. the lock will be just about passable.

we'll see how it goes.

regards

Taffy

Last edited by Taffy; December 4th, 2014 at 03:41 AM.
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December 11th, 2014, 06:51 AM   #38
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this week I got back the triple clamps that have had the offset changed from 14mm down to 12mm.

the reason this all took so long is because I bought a set of "CNC milled 11-14mm offset clamps 125-530cc" and had them anodised a nice iceberg blue.

they looked perfect, I knew the offset I needed was at best 14mm nd at worst 11mm. THEY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN BETTER.

really? no.

disaster!

having bought and collected them, paid the extra for the bar clamping parts (so why advertise them separately then?) which the clamps were no good without anyway, I started to fit them up.

alas I got a shock when the wheel spindle shot through the right leg.

the phuqin things were for a supermoto and a 2014 onwards at that with the TC fork leg centres a further 10mm apart than the usual.

the advert was clearly wrong but in the end I settled on all my money back and just lost on the anodising. little business v big corperate - you have to back off.

anyway, I bought another set of second hand but 'new' unused 14mm yokes.

I noted that they came with a nice fat 30mm stem and went out to the shed to find one of the older stems (pre 2003) and noted that they were imperial in those days at 1" and 25.4mm in new money. Ah! this could be the bit of luck I was looking for!

the engineer was persuaded that the best way of altering clamps was to press in shouldered cups from the bottom of the bottom clamp and the top of the top clamp. the resulting pressure should keep everything tight. by making perfectly round holes the cups couldn't be put in the wrong way or half-cocked.

so the precision work was done by the CNC and holes bored forward "eccentrically". the result was 12mm offset clamps.

a reminder why I fitted them?
as I was turning into corners the bars weren't dropping in and around. I didn't notice at first but after I got used to them I noticed that i was pushing forwards on the top bar and pulling on the bottom bar!

this means more trail was needed.

anyway, last weekend was my first ride with the bars and they worked a treat. the slower and tighter the corner - the more the bars tip in. grip of course is excellent. the steering should be heavier, if it is - i haven't noticed it.

the forks work best with less than the normal rebound setting.

WHAT IS NEXT?
next is to get this extra narrow radiator made to fit better. it won't look much but it has to be functional and do it's job.

also, I am having problems moving my feet. don't laugh! after studying my feet, footrests, my habits etc I have drawn one or two conclusions.

feet need to be flat on both edges of a footrest. if they are on one edge, the cleats dig into the boot sole and the feet can't be turned in or out.

the answer is either going to be to move the footrests forwards or to tilt them forwards a few degrees? trouble is.....which?

also, with a look at the usaberg frame, you can see that to take a footrest forwards means also taking it downwards as well!

so if I weld the footrest hangers 40mm forwards and 40mm downwards then the rider has dropped down....that isn't what was wanted. so the cheap answer is to stack two pairs of footrests.

an extended brake hose hase been fitted (will have to market these) and at last the cable isn't a nuisance. a Nissin M/C was fitted at the same time.

on the fuel leek front well, the fuel last leeked into the back of my modified ignition module and all the compound (rubber silicon something?) fell out. this is currently being repaired and a standard I.M is back on the bike.

another problem has been the fuel tap off the frame, I've ended up using a peugeot scooter remote fuel lever and this works but we've had the under seat auxillary tank off and on so often that we overtightened it one day and had a petrol leek. this is now I hope patched up. frame tabs had to be bent to syncronise the tabe and the face of the plastic so they sat together flush.

not sure when I'm next out.

regards

Taffy
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December 24th, 2014, 09:28 AM   #39
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below is a photo of the right side of the much welded radiator.
note how the top tank is now vertical.

the rad cap was welded on in such a way as the two tangs are angled to avoid the arc of the forks.
the front rad mount is also designed to miss the arc of the fork turning. I'm looking for 'almost' trials type steering lock.

the rad isn't protected behind the downtube of the frame but not even mud is getting there thank goodness.



note the Husky rad louvres - one per side.
note that the gap to the inside of the rad shrouds would now be 60mm or more except that I have zip tied the bottom in a little

would have liked some vertically ribbed sides but it is what it is.


tight fit
the fork misses the cap by 1mm
misses the rad by 1mm
misses the mounting rubber by 2mm

cap pressure had to be lower or higher than the OEM Husey but I'm not too worried.

no leeks and and no whispers of vapour since I went to the Japanese system so all is good.

I could have done with even more lock, like stupid lock: just to see what can be done! but after spending 500 I have the rad I needed.

the split welding is
left: first tank
right: added tank
both tanks kinda then got the chop and lent backwards

the inlet fosset had to be slimmed right against the top left tank, then the rad could come back about 4mm.


now you can see the problem...
just 2mm between the bottom tank and the headers.

could end up welding around here sometime......

anyway, the fuel tank appears to have stopped leeking!
yep but don't hold your breath!

we are now having electrical troubles which I must sort first! on February 4-6th 2015 I'm doing the legendary Dragon Rally and riding from South-East Wales to the North-west Wales in a day and then back again on the Sunday.

I must have lights and a functioning bike!

this therefore isn't the time to finally go to the trials set-up but as soon as I get back - I will.

merry Christmas everyone and here's to a great 2015 for you all!

regards

Taffy
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Last edited by Taffy; December 24th, 2014 at 09:41 AM.
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December 24th, 2014, 11:03 AM   #40
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