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September 10th, 2012, 04:31 AM   #1
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Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

When I bought my bike the previous owner had it re-sprung for a 110 kg rider. I was speaking to a guy who is fast, he won the experts in the cross country I went in yesterday on a 250 2t Berg, he advised that if it mine hadn't been re-valved when the heavier springs were fitted then both the shock and the forks will not be working anywhere near their potential.
He said he had his re-valved when he had the heavier springs fitted to his.
Is he correct?
Cheers Cam.
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September 10th, 2012, 05:18 AM   #2
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

Well it depends on how much the spring rates have been upgraded. With a 1 spring rate increase you can work the clickers, sag etc with good results. 2 spring rates it becomes marginal and anything more certainly will need a revalve.
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September 10th, 2012, 05:42 AM   #3
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

Fork springs are Eibach 0.50.
Rear spring is Race Tech 63x260 PDS P15. Original is White Power 72x250.
I would imagine stock spring rates would be for a max 85kg rider. So I'm presuming I will need a re-valve. It's pretty hard for me to judge as they feel great coming of a 99 XR600.
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September 10th, 2012, 07:01 AM   #4
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

Well after doing a search on here I think I have the right springs front and rear and I need to revalve.
After changing the gearing to 14-52 for my race yesterday and going full noise down some very sandy 1km+ long straights I'm assuming I was in the 160kph+ range I was too scared to look at the speedo, not to mention I wouldn't have been able to read it, with the bars moving side to side like a b**tard I need to do something. It also pushes the front in slower corners but isn't too bad in whoops when pinned it holds it's line but the rear does step out if not held 100% tight with my legs.
Sounds like all the guys my size have all the same symptoms. These are alleviated when the correct springs and revalve are done.
Another thing of note is the bottom 4 coils on the rear spring have compressed against each other as the paint has been rubbed away. This only happened after the race and not on the couple of trail rides I had only previously gone on this bike.
Now I just need to find an West Australian Dale E O.
Amazing how a race situation is so different from a couple of quick trail rides on a new bike.
Thanks to self for answering my own question.
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September 10th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #5
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

I'd have said that good damping was good for all springs BUT, and it is a big but, the heavier the spring the more momentum or energy is stored in the toy the big bugger on it and the spring when it unwinds!

what I do is work and work at the springs and clickers, then the geometry until I know what is holding me back, then not only am I asking for the suspension to be done abut I can also say what it is I think is wrong with it.

for instance, on my 570 I added a 84 spring from the 76. but the back end wap-wapped on all the long corners, I tried every riding condition and clicker and it was only on say one corner I could say: "there!!! there it is!" so I revalved it to FX specs and then re-valved it up again to where I guess you'd say an FC (MX) would be if indeed they'd made one!

Now I'm super happy and won the over 50s yesterday against 14 other riders my age.

took a long time and a lot of effort. don't take geometry out of the equation as 'pushing' etc can all be cured by dropping the clamps etc.

regards

Taffy
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September 10th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #6
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

All other things being equal, a harder spring needs less compression and more rebound damping as its harder to move initially, so softer compression to compemsate, and like Taffy says, then stores more energy for the rebound, so more rebound damping. If you can get it working OK with clickers more or less in the middle half of their range it should be OK, although there may still be damping issues to be resolved anyway, like the balnce of high and low speed, spikes, etc.

And if you turn the rebound in almost all the way to get it right, the oil flow drops off enough to cause overheating and fade, so might be OK initially, but it'll drop off with use.
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September 10th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #7
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'll go a bit less compression front and rear. I'll play with the rebound and do it all on one loop with a bit of everything.
I only had a couple of rides to get some sort of setup before racing it last weekend. I went pretty firm on compression and I also upped the rebound due to the higher than average speed of the course.
I'm hesitant to push the forks through the triple clamps due to the unstable front end at high speed at the moment.
I Also had a feel of the spring this morning and it feels loose as I can move it by hand.
I think I might give it a bit more preload and check all the sag settings as previously I had 23mm too much rider sag with all my gear, tools and 3lt camelback. I took the tools and the camel back out of the equation for the race but I didn't check the rider sag after doing so. I'm presuming it to be 5kgs so sag should have been pretty close.
I reckon it has loosened up due to bedding in as it only had 400 or so kays on it prior to the weekend.
I'm of to work for 8 days tomorrow and still a bit ginger from the weekend so I guess I've got some playing to do next week.

Cheers Cam
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September 11th, 2012, 01:46 AM   #8
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

Originally Posted by Cameron
I only had a couple of rides to get some sort of setup before racing it last weekend.

Cheers Cam
well....what can I say......

you can't play with a bike when racing.

what do they say:
practice is for practice!

the amount of people that turn up at a practice track and don't touch a thing still makes me weep! I'm always working hard on my suspension and handling!

I came 6th from 110 riders on Sunday. First over 50 by a mile. onan unweildy 570 with too much power. chuffed.

but the suspension? I can't fault it. it hasn't been touched this season so it took all of last season and one meeting in 2010 when I got it late in the year. at the time, I did a straight 1.5 hours , an hour for lunch and then during the second 1.5 in the afternoon I stopped with a lap to go. I couldn't take anymore. same happened in a straight three hour last March. I did 2.5 and just could not even get off the bike.

so that is the difference you can make with lots of dedication. you really need to get out there and find the limit as you see it, then when you've tried everything it puts you in a better position to say; THIS IS WHAT i NEED!

regards

Taffy
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September 11th, 2012, 04:28 AM   #9
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

Don't know if that was aimed at me but I changed plenty over the couple of rides I had. The terrain I had to practice on was vastly different to the terrain and speeds of the race. I work away so was tight for time and I got it as best I could.
As I stated I only had a couple of rides after purchase before the race. It was good but not perfect.
I will get it sorted pretty quick next week and put it on a plane and come over and race you.
Australia v Wales
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September 11th, 2012, 05:30 AM   #10
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Re: Do you need to re-valve when fitting heavier springs

I'm just trying to guide you in a direction. I've no idea where you are in the scheme of things but just take it as info.

regards

Taffy
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