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August 14th, 2018, 02:58 AM   #41
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that above photo up close looks like 4-6mm to me.

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August 14th, 2018, 03:56 AM   #42
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Try 6mm offset in this calculator spreadsheet: www.racetech.com/download/TrailCalculator.xls

The balance of rake and trail figures makes sense with a 17" wheel and 6mm offset.

( It's on-topic for the question of front washout imo )
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August 14th, 2018, 04:42 AM   #43
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I would love to have a set of Faor adjustable clamps (blue...). Painfully expensive..

What's your thought about them? Set 16mm offset but you can change the angle of the forks (shorten or extend the wheel base) by turning a bolt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_EanCU3zwk
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August 14th, 2018, 08:18 AM   #44
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it can only change the trail. so as the wheel went backwards the trail got bigger.

the trick will always be to make the pivot or stem steeper. someone put up a link on my BEARUP thread last year to someone who had done that to a can am.

you have to go by feel and 'staying on' with trail. if you go too far, the bike will tuke in especially cresting a rise and peeling in.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER IN PRACTICE THREE YEARS AGO, Nicky Hayden and Valention Rossi both fell off cresting a rise (on the Ducatis) and going on to the brakes? forget where but that will be why.

the other thing about too much trail is that the bike straightens up if you pull the brakes on...

you simply can't have too much trail....

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August 14th, 2018, 08:58 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
it can only change the trail. so as the wheel went backwards the trail got bigger.
The adjustable clamps change the rake. Because the rear wheel is not transported back, the wheelbase becomes shorter (of course). Because the changing rake pivots around a point above the exact point where the wheel touches the ground, the trail is also changed ... of course. The trail is not increased but reduced as the forks become steeper, as shown here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...eometry-en.svg
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August 14th, 2018, 09:08 AM   #46
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I can't see how they did it but if the stem doesn't move you haven't changed the rake. you've only changed the trail. they do it a lot on trials bikes because they want a short wheelbase but they want a headstock a long way forwards because the human frame is so big. even a steep headstock would be back a couple of inches if everything was as straight as it is with MX and roadrace.

if the pivot/stem changes angle then yes.

Taffy

Last edited by Taffy; August 14th, 2018 at 09:10 AM.
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August 14th, 2018, 03:40 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
it can only change the trail. so as the wheel went backwards the trail got bigger.

Taffy
If you are commenting on Jonís YouTube link above, you are wrong. That adjustment was changing the rake. Steepening the rake will reduce the trail.
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August 15th, 2018, 12:17 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
I can't see how they did it but.........................
Taffy
sorry, but have I got an echo?

BEARUP machine

would be good to see how it was done. also the pressure on a lil scoot is nothing like the mass of steel and kilos of weight, the sheer BHP of a bigger machine.

although all that adjustment looks great, its actually just phuqin things up after 2-3mm. its like a novelty for the sake of it. Yamaha had an adjustable steering head back in the 60-s for their road race GP machines for Phil Read, Mick Duff and Bill Ivy etc. they hinged the top section like a ro-ro ship door and you simply stuffed washers in each side of centre near the bottom. more washers extended the trail.

the trail has to be right to within 1mm plus or minus and luckily those three rings at the top of your forks can do 1mm but even they make a bike taller/shorter, take weight from one end and put it on the other etc.

about 5 years ago this month I borrowed a KTM300exc 6-day that was brand new and it just would not drop into corners. I had to be doing 10-15mph before it would drop on its side.

I reported here the problem when it came up on the identical 300 Husaberg (even the same age) and an old member went bananas, citing that until I rode THAT MAN's own bike, I just could not know - no way - what was wrong. Ho-hum, what can you say....

I obviously get to ride a lot of customers bikes and indeed my sales bikes and the biggest mistake I see is the 2001-2003s in SM and in 17" wheel trim running the standard 22mm dirtbike offset. they just don't want to turn, all they want to do is go straight ahead (same as above)....too little trail.

but people don't touch what they don't understand and they don't trust anyone.

I did some changes to a ScX 6-8 weeks ago and he took 2 seconds off his lap times and declared himself so happy he wanted to go home at 2pm. I said surely I haven't done it that well, all in one go? there's suspension work to come? no, no, no, all good, let's go home.

the next weekend they raced up near Scotland and i didn't go. the hardpacked track hammered him and his bro in the chair. so they took everything off. everything. they even owe me for parts and i may not get the money for it as they don't intend using it. If they had called me I could have helped sort it but they didn't.

I've been fostering that relationship for 2 years and due to whoever (the brother? a spectator? another rider?) I lose bacuse they got in all-of-a-panic.

Taffy

Last edited by Taffy; August 15th, 2018 at 12:32 AM.
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August 15th, 2018, 11:42 AM   #49
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sorry I haven't read much before on this thread ...I have the FAOR on the husaberg that's the difference that makes on a 3į angle....shorting the angle wheelbase helps steering in corner and increasing it helps in stability at high speed ...FAOR is good stuff, it doesn't look a lot but makes a difference when you change the angle (currently I am nearly all short on the FAOR adjustment )
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