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August 11th, 2018, 12:16 PM   #21
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All in my humble opinion, all bikes will washout being set up in a certain way and pushed a certain way. And considering how many ways you can ride a bike its a setup issue. So you need to take the time and fiddle your bike in a way that suits your riding style, tataa
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August 11th, 2018, 02:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TomTom View Post
All in my humble opinion, all bikes will washout being set up in a certain way and pushed a certain way. And considering how many ways you can ride a bike its a setup issue. So you need to take the time and fiddle your bike in a way that suits your riding style, tataa
In my pictures above there is the 450 and the 570. They both had the same issue. Swapped forks, triples, rear shock, spring etc. swap with other riders and bikes and you get the same opinion.

Yes, they need work where other brands put wheels on and go for it.
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August 11th, 2018, 04:13 PM   #23
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Street riding will be no problem.
If i was riding the streets only, I'd keep my conversion kit (which I have) and accept the (many) compromises that come with it whilst having fun at reasonable speeds. (Get cush drive rear)

Riding very hard/fast or for lap times around a circuit is a different story,
in that case, just buy a Husky FS450 and be done. (Or the KTM 450 from pre husky a few years ago)

All the fruit, handle well. 60+hp. They are a very good thing, so much so that its very rare to see one advertised for sale publicly, they usually get sold on by word of mouth within racing circles here. Can't register them legally though...

the berg with SM conversion looks like a Giraffe next to a Leopold when its next to a proper tard.
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Last edited by 383hq; August 11th, 2018 at 04:18 PM.
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August 12th, 2018, 06:49 AM   #24
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6mm of OFFSET? offset should first and foremost allow the bike to roll around a radius of bends (either slow/hairpin, medium or fast), the three aren't mutually exclusive. the bars should remain neutral with no effort to steer.

if you imagine a corner a as rock face at say 45d and you are travelling across it, you don't want the bike to climb up the corner because this will cause the bike to break traction or to want to ride straight ahead (down the rockface) 'out' of the corner.

the 2004-2008 SMs handle best with 16,17,18mm offset. the 2001-2003 SMs handle best with 18, 19, 20mm offset. so where does 6mm offset come from?

all that means, like a tea trolley, you lay it on its side and the wheels turn at 90d to the trolley, the front wheel of a bike tries to climb up the corner to the inside but of course it scrubs and you lose the front end.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&so...34167547303697

the guy in the link/photo above has obviously just 'lost it' but if he was to corner with 6mm of offset and just gently hold the bars like we all do then this would be the effect. the front end went to turn in like a tea trolley wheel.

all you have to do is take a tea trolley and push it over on to two wheels and the front wheel will pivot round to 90d.

you can do the same by standing behind a bicycle or a motorbike. the steering always turns into the corner.

luckily, the rear tyre is driving the headstock forwards just like we push the trolley and there's an element of it pulling the wheel straight again (the wheel has trail so like the tea trolley being pushed it straightens up).

The FE570 dirt bike had so much trail at 16/18mm that i went to 20mm and then 22mm. word had it that Joachin Lungren had asked for 24mm offset but the factory refused so he said; "well i want to race the 2T for 2011 instead then" and so they let them.

but that is 24mm, i wanted 24mm. how the hell can you ride with 6mm?

Taffy

Last edited by Taffy; August 12th, 2018 at 06:54 AM.
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August 12th, 2018, 07:33 AM   #25
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Less offset simply means more trail. Which lines up well with smaller wheels reducing trail, and other ways of changing geometry and balance.

Can be seen very clearly in this picture:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...eometry-en.svg

The source article is quite good: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicy...cycle_geometry

The answer to “how the hell” bikes can be ridden is in simple trigonometry and basic physical forces.
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Last edited by tourist; August 12th, 2018 at 07:41 AM.
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August 13th, 2018, 01:47 AM   #26
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Tourist

it's good that you introduce people to the basics but this is beyond the basics.

Taffy

Last edited by Taffy; August 13th, 2018 at 01:57 AM.
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August 13th, 2018, 02:05 AM   #27
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Perhaps

However, say we desire an approximate trail of X. Say 50mm for our circus bike. Now somebody broke in and put super low offset fork yokes on and have a trail of, say 2 times X. 100mm. She’s steering heavy and we almost ran into the circus pole. Now say we’re sticking with the same size wheel, there is an action we can take which returns the trail to X, 50mm, yes? What is that action, and what other effects will it have?
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August 13th, 2018, 03:17 AM   #28
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jacking the rear will reduce the trail
so will lowering the front
a wider rear wheel/tyre (when leaned over)
narrower front wheel/tyre (when leaned over)

after that you're into weird shit like changing headstock to steeper.
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August 13th, 2018, 03:26 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by 383hq View Post
Street riding will be no problem.
If i was riding the streets only, I'd keep my conversion kit (which I have) and accept the (many) compromises that come with it whilst having fun at reasonable speeds. (Get cush drive rear)

Riding very hard/fast or for lap times around a circuit is a different story,
in that case, just buy a Husky FS450 and be done. (Or the KTM 450 from pre husky a few years ago)

All the fruit, handle well. 60+hp. They are a very good thing, so much so that its very rare to see one advertised for sale publicly, they usually get sold on by word of mouth within racing circles here. Can't register them legally though...

the berg with SM conversion looks like a Giraffe next to a Leopold when its next to a proper tard.
Not uncommon to hear 2 seconds a lap quicker with the FS450. Outstanding.
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August 13th, 2018, 03:41 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
jacking the rear will reduce the trail
so will lowering the front
a wider rear wheel/tyre (when leaned over)
narrower front wheel/tyre (when leaned over)

after that you're into weird shit like changing headstock to steeper.
FFS Taffy you twit. Jacking the rear wheel or lowering the front will change your rake. This isnít how you change your trail.
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