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January 21st, 2007, 07:46 AM   #1
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From: rhodes greece

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same old story difficult starting !!!

right i'm having the same old problem of starting .
..
my 2001 ..470 i have just installed new valves new tappets and a brand new carb
(which i have also stripped and checked ) the bike takes maybe 20 kicks to start i've tried it with choke ..no choke .. with throttle and no throttle 3 new spark plugs nothing seems to make a difference it dosen't even sound like it is going to start but when the bike starts it runs perfect straight away it ticks over perfect it revs up perfect it rides very well..if i stop it when it is warm it will start on the 2 or3 kick
in the carb it has a 266dr needle jet a 185 main jet and a k35 needle i know it says in the manual...the main jet should be 190 and needle should be a k51 and needle jet should be a 272
but the carb was supplied to me for this bike and this is what jets and needle it came with it is even says fc470 on the carb
i have checked the ignitioin stator the readings are as follows
yellow and blue 0.5 ohm should be 1 ohm
red and black 2812 ohms should be 3000 ohms
green and black 166 ohms should be 168 ohms

i know this is a well chewed on subject but obviously i have checked and rechecked the tappets and i have read the hard start guide i personally wouldn't think the main jet size and needle would make a difference on starting as i think these don't come into operation until more throttle is applied any help would be appreciated as my leg is getting worn out !!
cheers andy
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January 21st, 2007, 08:49 AM   #2
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I think it's just a matter of finding the correct starting routine for your bike.
My 470 used to like getting 4 or 5 slow kicks with the choke on until I smelled fuel. I would then release the choke and it would usually start 1 or 2 full kicks. By full kicks I mean all the way from the top, without cheating the stroke, all the way untill it bottoms on the foot peg.
The 550 used to get 5 kicks with the choke on and the decompressor pulled in. Release the decompressor and give it a full kick and it would usually start.

If all else fails, you can send the carb to Lineaweaver and let him work his magic on it. I know of a few people who have had good results.

The 470's have always seemed to be the hardest starting bikes in my opinion.
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January 21st, 2007, 09:26 AM   #3
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hi thanks for the advive
in a way with what your saying at least i know that there is probably nothing wrong with my engine and it is just that the 470's are hard to start generally

andy
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January 21st, 2007, 09:39 AM   #4
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Here is a relevant thread:
http://www.husaberg.org/index.php?name= ... 358e2760ab

Dale
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January 21st, 2007, 02:17 PM   #5
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if you're feeling brave why don't you do the Taff crescent mod? it's in the owners doc. i found that once i'd mastered the technique it helped quite a bit.

i would also look at a new plug cap, i'd check the electrics out of the ignition and all the way up to under the tank. extra earth, clean all earths, use silicon upon reconnecting.

the list is actually endless and unfortunately it has never been proved to be just one thing that starts them!

regards

Taffy
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January 21st, 2007, 10:00 PM   #6
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hi taffy thanks for the advice
i have throughly checked the wiring and it seems okay ..i have a look at the crescent mod though i haven't seen this before

thanks andy
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February 6th, 2007, 12:57 AM   #7
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One fix finally works

My 02 FX650E was the worst, 2 attempts at e-start and the battery is dead.

I have read all kinds of posts and used the excellent troubleshooting guide from this site. But the truth, at least in my case is there is only 1 thing keeping it from firing up instantly

I was given this tip by Z=Racing in Anaheim CA. Finally someone who had a cam out actually looked at the thing. The centrifugal decompresser goes past optimum when static. They showed me a cam and I couldn't believe it wasn't discovered before. All you have to do is spot weld a blob at the stop point and grind it to clean up the weld and perhaps adjust the stop. As they say, it starts like a KTM.

I can finally 1 kick it but I never have to. Even when cold the engine turns over at a much faster speed, and the battery does not go dead immediately. I had already committed to installing a much larger battery prior to the cam discovery. Since this fix (including battery and 8 gage wiring from - to frame, and - to engine, 6 gage from + to solenoid and then to starter. I have turned the engine over 100 times (separate short cycles) without having to put the battery on a charger once. In the past I kept it on the charger and had to wait between tests for it to give me another try or two.
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February 6th, 2007, 11:02 AM   #8
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RE: One fix finally works

unomecin

welcome to UHE and valuable advice indeed. we know of the decomp but the wire thickness is a good one!

regards

Taffy
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February 7th, 2007, 08:04 AM   #9
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The wire gage is not an absolute, I have worked in the electronics field for 23 years (after starting as a Yamaha Mechanic). I can tell you that you need good connections and enough mass to carry the current without creating a resistance. Which would be poor connections or too small a wire size

This was evidenced when I was impatient and tried to check the timing while using the starter. The battery was out of the bike but it had the trickle charger leads connected and I used them in a makeshift manor. They were probably only 18 gage or smaller as current is not over 1-4 amps. The engine could turn over but there was nothing left for the spark plug. I temporarily added a stiff copper wire from battery ground to the coil mounting bolt and it fired up and started for the first time in over a year.

I arrived at the gage sizes based on my battery having maximum current draw of 190 amps. So I couldn't afford to go smaller than 6 just for safety. The smallest copper lugs are usually 6 or 8 gage, especially with a small post hole. I like having battery to frame and engine connections and actually run a third straight to the grounding connector point under the tank

Over-sized wire will have less resistance to current flow. Equally important is the wire must be multi-stranded automotive copper with copper lugs., I prefer Welding Wire as it has over 100 highly flexible hair like strands.. I was amazed to see a conductivity chart for common metals. Nothing is close to Copper, Including Gold. Make a change here and you loose 40 - 90 % of your ability to conduct electricity.
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February 8th, 2007, 11:22 AM   #10
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Welcome Unomecin.
Andy -
It could be electrical. What colour is your spark ?
How far is it jumping ?
Your stator may be ok, but connections or a short could be weakening your spark at the plug.
Regards
Ady
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