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November 22nd, 2006, 09:28 PM   #1
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Is the ball/roller main combo a bad configuration ???

Ive been thinking it over for a while and its getting to me.

The warranty engine (03 650) supplied to me after my initial 8 hr intake rocker fiasco came fitted with LHS roller, RHS ball.

The question is, with that bearing configuration, how do Husaberg expect the crank to stay locked in the correct axial position ??.

Because the ball on the RHS is only a "press " fit on the crank, surely the forces involved are too great to expect a "press" fit reliably hold the crank in the correct position.

Most other bikes I have worked on generally have the inner ball bearing race sandwiched between the primary drive gear and the crank. This securely locks the crank into place axially. My Husaberg however, has the floating inner race of the roller on the primary drive side.

All of the my Husabergs axial location comes down to a press fit ball on the crank- there is nothing to lock this inner race onto its correct position.This means if the press fit is not tight enough, the crank will eventually start to move in the inner race.

This is what happened on my 650, and by inspecting the inner race (or remains of it ) you can see where the crank has spun in the bearing(and not just in final failure stage).

So, is my opinion of this configuration justified ?. Should the Berg really have ball/ball or roller/roller ??, and nothing inbetween ??

I seem to recall another UHE member who experienced the crank spinning in RHS inner race, and the bearing was still rotating fine..................

Opinions please gents

PS before you all say "Press fit is more than ample, you halfwit !!!" think of how many bikes get assembled with a ball/ball combo and a hearty smack with a soft hammer to "centre" it in the cases. They are not that tight , are they.
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November 22nd, 2006, 09:36 PM   #2
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RE: Is the ball/roller main combo a bad configuration ???

I ran the whole AMA pro supermoto series with a ball/roller combo with no problems at all, and I have never seen an inner race spin on the crank on any of the bergs I've taken apart, they seem to press on pretty hard. Is this the same crank that it keeps spinning on, maybe the shaft is a few thousands too small or maybe the roller seizes witch causes the inner race to spin on the shaft for a second.
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November 22nd, 2006, 09:47 PM   #3
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Re: RE: Is the ball/roller main combo a bad configuration ??

Originally Posted by Motox502
I ran the whole AMA pro supermoto series with a ball/roller combo with no problems at all, and I have never seen an inner race spin on the crank on any of the bergs I've taken apart, they seem to press on pretty hard. Is this the same crank that it keeps spinning on, maybe the shaft is a few thousands too small or maybe the roller seizes witch causes the inner race to spin on the shaft for a second.
This is the first failure I have had, but as I said I do recall another post on this site where the same had occured- thats why Im asking, to see if any more had had similar issues.

any idea what crank/inner race fitting tolerance should be ??
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November 23rd, 2006, 08:35 AM   #4
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Is the ball/roller main combo a bad configuration

i'm prepared to call most things but for once i really think that ones over my head if for no other reason than the fact that it's something i simply haven't read up on.

the roller can take a greater load, the ball can keep it all central but the end of the rollers could rub if the cranks axial movement isn't checked. that's more or less what happened to the little needle rollers in the rocker (cam follower) bearings we all know about.

the problem has been, i was reliably informed last week, that the roller bearings were squeezed into the cases. and that means the end of the rollers have had a friction fight with their own housings. endo in destruction.

the ball bearing creates more tolerance or creates slack where there was none along the axis of the crank. so what has happened here is that it's a fix to get you out of trouble - to find you tolerance.

when i did the crank on my ducati, you would shim it axially and using a vernier i would belt the crank one way (measure) and then the other along it's axis with a rubber hammer. measure the difference between the bearing and a shoulder on the carnk. then i would wallop the crank the other way but measure at the same point. if there was a change of about .006" i was happy! that was my end float.

to adjust it i had to strip the crankcases and start all over. when you had it right you didn't have to worry about the crank at a rebuild again! just don't lose the position of those shims! the same went for getting the gearbox, 8 rockers, camshaft, selector drum all alright!

the answer is to machine something off the crank and use shims to get the tolerance just right. you really can tell when it's right because you couldn't feel a thing or hear it when it was. if it was wrong the balls ran on the edge of their races and not in the bottom. this creates a rumble, some friction and a noise like no other.

regards

Taffy
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November 23rd, 2006, 10:28 PM   #5
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Found it
Another Berg whos crank has spun in the inner race on RHS.

http://www.husaberg.org/index.php?name= ... nner#28341

So I am not alone.........the question is, how many bikes are out there now with the same issue ??

[/url]
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November 23rd, 2006, 10:31 PM   #6
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i bet the warranty dept would know
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November 24th, 2006, 05:10 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by whosahberg
i bet the warranty dept would know
i think you're wrong whosaberg. but the parts dept might!

ausberg
we still need to know why?

regards

taffy
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November 24th, 2006, 03:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Taffy
Originally Posted by whosahberg
i bet the warranty dept would know
i think you're wrong whosaberg. but the parts dept might!


wrong again - sorry taff old bean ...... 50 lashes should cover it ..eh ..or what

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November 25th, 2006, 04:40 AM   #9
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Re: RE: Is the ball/roller main combo a bad configuration ??

Hi Ausberg,

The tolerance you are looking for is 0.0025'' to 0.005'' max.

What does the bearing surface measure in relationship to a new bearing if it's gone to far might have to have it turned and metal sprayed.

One small tip instead of drifting the bearing on put it on a hot plate the bearing expands and it will drop straight on the shaft without putting it under any stress.

Regards

Sparks.
www.uk-motoplat.com
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November 25th, 2006, 01:56 PM   #10
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Re: Is the ball/roller main combo a bad configuration ???

Originally Posted by AUSBERG
Most other bikes I have worked on generally have the inner ball bearing race sandwiched between the primary drive gear and the crank. This securely locks the crank into place axially. My Husaberg however, has the floating inner race of the roller on the primary drive side.
I agree with this and I posted the text below on this thread: http://www.husaberg.org/index.php?name= ... 0&start=75

'04s went to a roller bearing crank which if the end float wasn't set right could destroy themselves at tickover DCR put this right by a ballrace on the timing side with a spacer between the bearing and primary drive gear that pulled the crank tight against that bearing so there is no axial float. The ignition side has a roller to cope with the rotor/flywheel weight overhang. This makes sense to me as my 470 destroyed the ignition side main bearing which then meant the rotor destroyed the stator, and my current '03 650 shows evidence of this in its history. JBS racing use a higher rated 9 ball ballrace on the timing side as opposed to the std 8 ball berg one.

This is what my '03 650 has and when it next gets taken down I will fit the higher rated 9 ball ballrace on the timing side.
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