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April 26th, 2020, 11:51 PM   #1
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I Ride: Husaberg FS650 2004, KTM 400 EXC 2006, Honda Hornet CB600F 2000
Smile Excessive amount of metallic flakes in oil. FS650 2004

Hello!

(There is a short/TL;DR version at the bottom of the post)

At first I'd like to apologize for yet another post about flakes in the oil. I know there are quite a few of these threads and should this one be considered unnecessary I will remove it.

To the case at hand:

I recently bought a 2004 Husaberg FS650E which has, according to the onboard "computer", logged about 120-130 hours. I do not remember exactly and I wont have access to double check until next weekend sadly.

Anyway, I rode it for a couple of hours (less than 5) after I bought it and then performed a first oil change whereupon I noticed a remarkable amount of flakes both on the oil plug, oil screen and oil filter. I have linked an album to the first oil change below. Most of the flakes not on the magnetic plug were not magnetic.

First Oil change:https://imgur.com/a/lZtkL


As I do not have much experience with these bikes I'm not sure what flake amount is considered "normal" and from what I've heard, these bikes to "chip" and flake quite a bit, but still it seems a bit excessive..

To my knowledge, no major service has been performed at the 100 hour mark and so I will most likely split the engine and do an overhaul in the near future.

After having emptied the oil i flushed the engine several times with new engine oil, making sure to pump the kickstarter a few times by hand to try and get all flakes out of the engine. I also replace both the oil filter and cleaned the oil screen as best I could.

I rode the bike for about 3-4 hours before I changed the oil again and this time it looked much better, atleast compared to the previos oil change. Album linked here: https://imgur.com/a/eHOL77R

Still, there are quite a few flakes on the plug, and some on the filter but is this considered "normal"?

I know that this is a race machine at heart and I knew what I was getting into when buying it, rebuilding the engine etc is not something I am shying away from but of course I would like to be able to ride the bike a bit more into the summer

So basically, my question is wheter or not this is an acceptable amount of flakes, maybe because of a missed oil change, or if it is time to crack the engine case and do a major service before it becomes more expensive than need be.

Thank you in advance!



TL;DR:
Bought FS650e 2004 @ 120hrs. No major service had been performed.

Rode for less than 5hrs, changed oil. Lots of flakes/chips. Most flakes were not magnetic Album: https://imgur.com/a/lZtkL

Flushed engine with new oil to get all chips out, replaced screen, & filter. Rode for 3-4 hours. Changed oil again and it looked a lot better this time.
Album: https://imgur.com/a/eHOL77R

Time for engine rebuild or was an oil change just missed which caused excessive flake buildup?
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April 27th, 2020, 12:10 AM   #2
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take the ignition cover off, stand on the left of the bike, lean over the fuel tank and shake the flywheel in different engine positions over 2 turns. any 'clonk' and strip it immediately. if not it is difficult to decide?

next, grab the flywheel like a steering wheel in a car and drive the crank too-anr-fro. do you have lots of left-right-left float. measure it is you can.

the danger is, if the mains are gone that the cases will crack on the right main from the main's house to the front engine mounting.

there vare no more cases.

sorry about your plight....

some times the old owner did few oil changes and this does two things;
1) it knocks the mains out
2) a lkittle natural swarf is often seen but when a new owner sees it what does it prove.

remember, oil may lubricate but it is also washing machine powder and always washing towards the magnet. that is the good news!

Taffy
Thanks from Emrik
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April 27th, 2020, 01:01 PM   #3
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I Ride: Husaberg FS650 2004, KTM 400 EXC 2006, Honda Hornet CB600F 2000
Wow! Thank you so much for your reply Taffy!

I will perform the tests you described this weekend and get back with some results.

Just to be clear, when you say "shake the flywheel in different engine positions over 2 turns", do you mean that I should try to pull and push the flywheel left-right, up-down in different parts of the 2 revolutions?

I'm guessing this is to see if there is any radial play in the main bearings which would indicate that the bearing races are worn, is this correct?

Also, is turning the flywheel to and fro meant to show if the rod big end journal is worn or is it to measure gear backlash?

Ofcourse, you don't have to answer these questions, I would just like to learn as much as I can

Thank you again!

And by the way, are there any difficulties for you to ship to Sweden what with the coronavirus and everything? Just thought I'd double check
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April 28th, 2020, 12:12 AM   #4
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mail is 100% normal. also what is normal is some post offices being slow and my customers panicking!!!!

but it comes with the job, they always get their parcels (except in Turkey) in the end. Cyprus is bad too.

I first leaned over my bike at the 1985 Manx GP, bike wouldn't start, engine cover off and I just walked over to the bike, leant over the tank and grbbed the flywheel....clonk, clonk, clonk!!!

best to be facing it for the axial play.

the reason for the 2 turns is that the far side gears, the valves and gears etc create forces on the crank that make it tight. but somewhere over the FOUR STROKES the crank, if it is Kaputt, will let you know it is Kaputt!

Taffy
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April 28th, 2020, 12:34 PM   #5
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I Ride: Husaberg FS650 2004, KTM 400 EXC 2006, Honda Hornet CB600F 2000
I see, thank you again taffy!

I'll give an update when I've had time to check the bike.
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May 1st, 2020, 06:34 AM   #6
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I Ride: Husaberg FS650 2004, KTM 400 EXC 2006, Honda Hornet CB600F 2000
Back with an update!

I removed the ignition cover and tried pulling, pushing and rocking the flywheel to the sides etc at different locations whilst I rotated the crank but I was not able to feel any play at all, at most maybe 0.1mm in a specific spot but that might just have been my imagination.

I also checked for axial play which I measured to 0.7mm, as I do not have any reference I'm not quite sure if this is too much or too little or just perfect.

I removed the clutch cover to check if any of the gears were worn so as to cause the excessive amount of flakes but I could not find any idication of abnormal wear.


I've heard that some 650 models have an aluminium camshaft sprocket so I'm thinking of taking the top off to check but as far as I'm aware, the 2004 model shouldn't have an aluminium camshaft sprocket.


Do you Taffy or anyone else have any idea on how to proceed? Would it be safe to put it back together and ride it a bit longer or should I just bite the bullet and tear the engine down while I'm at it?

Thank you again for your help Taffy!
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May 1st, 2020, 07:22 AM   #7
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I Ride: Husaberg FE501e 2003
0.7mm is right for that year but the 2004 crank was flexible.

I think you're going to have to strip it.

sorry!

BTW, look at my other replies and you'll see I try everything beforehand.

Taffy
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May 1st, 2020, 01:10 PM   #8
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I Ride: Husaberg FS650 2004, KTM 400 EXC 2006, Honda Hornet CB600F 2000
I see, thank you! I was pretty much set on having to strip it due to it not having had any major service done to it at 120 hours so no worries
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May 2nd, 2020, 12:26 AM   #9
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I Ride: Husaberg FE501e 2003
I'd rebuild it with no shims and if you can get to 0.8mm then I'd say "bloody good!".

that is the last year of the flexible 32mm big end.

I was chatting with a customer yesterday on the phone and I used an analogy that maybe we all have experience of no matter which counry we are from.

I'm going to guess that everyone reading on this forum went to chool (OK - Except for Ned....!)
that we all had those plastic school chairs with the 4 unsupported legs. the chairs were easily stacked etc.

as kids we all marched up to them and threw ourselves into them backwards at great speed. for that moment that we landed, the legs went out 'woo-wah' .... and back.

that's what happens to your crankshaft every single time just after TDC (11 degrees to be exact) on the firing stroke.

cheers

Taffy
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May 4th, 2020, 11:13 AM   #10
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I Ride: Husaberg FS650 2004, KTM 400 EXC 2006, Honda Hornet CB600F 2000
Good analogy Taffy, no wonder people are having trouble with the main bearings going when so much axial force is being put through a bearing designed for mostly radial forces!

Another update!

I've found the cause of the flakes!

The timing chain tensioner had seized completely, it was only 2 "teeth" out and I could not move it in either direction despite unhooking the ratchet mechanism.

I have not checked the timing chain tension since I bought the bike so it must've been running with a slack timing chain for quite some time...

The timing chain slack resulted in the chain grinding against the lefthand side of the valve cover and all the way down along the wall of the case. Luckily, it seems no vital parts have taken any damage so it should be enough to file down the burrs left by the timing chain, as well as replacing the chain etc.

Here's an album with some pictures for those who are interested!: https://imgur.com/a/YGVf8uR


I'll still be splitting the engine case sometime during the week so that I can change the bearings. I'll see if I can get in touch with Engine Hardware and install his "bearing upgrade". Might aswell when I've already disassembled most of the engine

Any tips or things to keep in mind when splitting the case? I've heard that some people have had trouble with the shift drum position when assembling, is there some things I should mark up before splitting the case?

I also made this copy of the OEM case splitter, will be put to the test during the week https://imgur.com/a/zX8YNmM

Cheers
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