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October 14th, 2016, 08:32 AM   #1
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I Ride: HB 570 FE
570 using KTM 2003 125 MX 14mm offset triples?

Evening bergers!
Im curious if anyone tried fitting the KTM 2003-2004 125MX 14mm offset triple trees on a 570?
Reason for asking is Id like to try a bit radical chassis setup on my 570 for this seasons ice racing, which likely requires means to bring trail back again.
I love to keep things looking non-blinged/oem, albeit doing the job perfectly. (in reality fooling competitors )

I compared parts for the triples and they share the bearings, fork diameters and all, only difference I could spot was 5mm longer stem, which easily can be changed/replaced/modified.
Im aware the 570FS 14-16mm offset stuff fits, BUT thats a too easy way, innit

So question is will they fit 570?? Anyone knows or like to elaborate?
Not looking for riding experiences, fitment only please

Cheers Tom
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Last edited by TomTom; October 14th, 2016 at 08:50 AM.
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October 14th, 2016, 09:17 AM   #2
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yes they fit. it'll be like steering a Lorry but yup, they fit

Taffy
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October 14th, 2016, 10:03 AM   #3
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Fun. Interesting. Goal: Weight over front wheel?
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October 14th, 2016, 12:10 PM   #4
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I Ride: FX450 - sold, '08 KTM 690SMR, '12 KTM250SXF (SOLD) 2016 Husky FC250 new race bike!
I ran the 14's on my 2010 FX450 for supermoto racing. Worked great.
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October 14th, 2016, 01:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
yes they fit. it'll be like steering a Lorry but yup, they fit

Taffy
After a few almost high sides in 100+km/h on ice a lorry sounds intriguing!!
No need for quick steering, stability is nice on ice.

Tomtom while we are talking about ice setups, what do you think of soft enduro suspension vs stiff motard? I was using my motard setup last winter and liked that the bike is lower. Our friend mr Gross told me the softer enduro suspension is better as that grips the ice better. I'm not convinced at all.
I do like the lower bike!
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October 15th, 2016, 06:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jon andersson View Post
Tomtom while we are talking about ice setups, what do you think of soft enduro suspension vs stiff motard? I was using my motard setup last winter and liked that the bike is lower. Our friend mr Gross told me the softer enduro suspension is better as that grips the ice better. I'm not convinced at all.
I do like the lower bike!
Making it lower is first prio as I tried a lowered bike and it was sooo nice.
Front soft and rear like MX is what most people seems to use on the ice.
Currently I have the FE suspension with a bit stronger springs plus a fair amount of comp and return on the rear, works well as far as spring rates go.
What I noticed riding with similarly paced riders and in curves that you need to take rolling through, my bike will slide while theirs just keeps the line and goes through it. So Im looking to cure that aswell.

Fork will be lowered quite a bit and then Ill put it on the bike and see how much to lower the rear from that. Putting it more on its nose will require less offset triples to recover trail, hence the question.

If possible I will lower the forks enough to fit a flattrack wheel in it, that wheel is really wide and it needs to stay above the fork fat part at the fork seal. So a bit of research now to see what goes and what doesnt.

Any input is welcome!
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October 15th, 2016, 11:18 PM   #7
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BEARUP machine

this info should be some kind of gold if you can work out the difference your 70d/LDC engine is to my 'ol gal'.

first of all, I can't see how you need 14mm offset? a bike has to feel right as you drop it into the corner. they feel best with something like 20-22mm offset and I wanted 24mm offset in my last season on the bike.

now that is with the original steering head angle. so 20-24mm.

then on the other hand, my old 400 has a 22.5d headstock and ran 11mm to feel sweet. originally as a sweet handler it ran 18mm. and 18-20mm was the sweet spot. so a 4d headstock change was worth 8mm of offset change.

I would say 24mm offset on yours if a 570, 22mm if a 450. then however many degrees you change the headstock angle by you should then take off 2mm per degree. you can at most make 2d of difference. that is the tops I reckon. so you are looking at the same as SM at around 17mm offset. the lowering process - well I don't know what you will lower it by but it doesn't change the trail at all doing this.

I think therefore a set of the 16-18 offset TCs will be plenty good enough? how's the Maths looking fella?

regards

Taffy
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October 16th, 2016, 07:32 AM   #8
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FWIW as I see it, the straightening force on the steering assembly is a function of:
- contact patch size (behind point where the ray through the steering mechanism's center meets ground); actually it's also a geometric effect as the further away from that point, the more leverage the ground has on the wheel
- speed
- grip

How much straightening force you want is probably a function of operating speed and user preference

Contact patch size is a function of
- front wheel trail geometry
- wheel size

Trail geometry is a function of
- Front suspension angle
- Offset as determined by axle position in forks
- Triple clamp offset

Front suspension angle is a function of
- Up/down position of rear relative to up/down position of forks in yoke
- Headstock angle

Last edited by tourist; October 16th, 2016 at 07:42 AM.
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October 16th, 2016, 01:53 PM   #9
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The lower suspension makes the bike more stable/controllable sliding through corners on ice as you have lower cg, it is easier to adjust the tilt and you have more control with the leg on the ice. Feels like less risk of a high side. Driving on ice is a strange combination of good grip and sliding. Like tarmac for the front wheel and gravel for the back wheel, sort of.
Thanks from tourist and sico
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October 17th, 2016, 12:42 AM   #10
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too much trail makes the bike hinged in the middle, a horrible feeling.

Lowering
the lower the height of the engine gives more leverage because the riders relationship with the engine and main body of the bike hasn't changed but the engine's relationship with the ground and the tyre contact points just got a lot closer.

regards

Taffy
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