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March 31st, 2015, 11:52 AM   #21
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FE,

The engine was FULL of water after I submerged it, so it didn't run at all until I drained the oil, pulled the carb, removed the exhaust, suctioned out the cylinder. It was a damn mess...

I drained the oil right when I got home, filled it with some cheap car oil, ran it for about 10 seconds and dumped it again. After that I ran it for like 20 seconds, dumped, 60 seconds, dumped and probably once more. I was less concerned about the water than the dirt that was in the engine.

Anyways, that was only my 2nd or 3rd ride so I don't have any baseline to go on, but I suspect the bike has likely been wearing like this for a while.

I looked at the starter clutch and couldn't see any signs of trauma, but I couldn't actually spot any shim in there. It turned freely and smoothly though so it didn't seem like the source of the problems. Does that sound right?

Once I track down a flywheel puller and make a case splitter I'll have a better look at the internals. The engine is out now...

Thanks for the help, guys.
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April 1st, 2015, 03:37 PM   #22
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I'm back into the engine and the starter clutch seems OK to me. I can't see any shims in there, am I looking at the wrong part?

Anyways, everything was clean and there were no jagged bits, so not the source of the metal bits/paste. There is a bit of drag when spinning the inner and outer hub against eachother.

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April 2nd, 2015, 01:04 AM   #23
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For the cam try a bit of a polish with 400 or 600 wet and dry paper in the direction of rotation, nothing to loose if you think it is stuffed anyway, I cant really tell from the photo with the oil on the surface.

Last edited by spanner; April 2nd, 2015 at 01:06 AM. Reason: clarity
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April 7th, 2015, 11:05 PM   #24
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Well I finally got the engine open. It's been a busy week with Easter dinners, driving around to get the flywheel removed, making up a case splitter and having some idiot crash into my parked truck in front of my house and totalling it...

Anyways, I think I found a problem:


The oil control ring is broken into several pieces. The cylinder is scored a bit so it will need to be repaired. I'm not sure about the piston, the ring lands seems OK so I'm not sure if it's reusable. The skirts have some light scoring, but the wear seems light.

Cylinder. The scratch on the right side is the deepest and can easily be felt. The deposits on the piston make me thing some oil was getting through.


Case Splitter:


Questions:

The OEM cylinder liner might be cheaper than getting this one repaired. The local shop (Mongoose) charges $325 to repair and nikasil.

-Can anyone recommend a place to get this repaired? I don't mind putting it in a box and mailing it off to save some $$

-Is the new liner (#81530005000) ready to use, or does it need to be plated?

-Did the broken ring cause the scoring in the cylinder, or did something else get in there and f*&k things up (mud/dirt)?

-The cylinder still has nice cross-hatching. Does it look like it has 357 hours on it or was it replaced not too long ago? Some parts looks surprisingly clean, other look old and tired.

-This should account for flaky bits in the oil plus excess metal paste on the magnet, right???

I'm tired, I'll post more pics tomorrow with more questions. Thanks.

-Kent
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Last edited by KentJ; April 7th, 2015 at 11:09 PM.
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April 8th, 2015, 12:40 AM   #25
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I would think the piston has had it. we need a photo of the two thrust faces to help with that decision though....

yes you need to re-nikasil. try Langcourts in Auburn, Texas?

yes, new liners come ready to go

regards

Taffy
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April 8th, 2015, 02:44 AM   #26
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Sorry to hear about the truck... that sucks.

-http://www.cvtech-aab.com/en/ These dudes do re-lining, quoted me at $250 yesterday.
-Haven't checked out the place taffy recommends, will do now... Mongoose seems to be directly affiliated with Langcourts

Originally Posted by KentJ View Post
The oil control ring is broken into several pieces. The cylinder is scored a bit so it will need to be repaired. I'm not sure about the piston, the ring lands seems OK so I'm not sure if it's reusable. The skirts have some light scoring, but the wear seems light.

Questions:

The OEM cylinder liner might be cheaper than getting this one repaired. The local shop (Mongoose) charges $325 to repair and nikasil.

-Can anyone recommend a place to get this repaired? I don't mind putting it in a box and mailing it off to save some $$

-Is the new liner (#81530005000) ready to use, or does it need to be plated?

-Did the broken ring cause the scoring in the cylinder, or did something else get in there and f*&k things up (mud/dirt)?

-The cylinder still has nice cross-hatching. Does it look like it has 357 hours on it or was it replaced not too long ago? Some parts looks surprisingly clean, other look old and tired.

-This should account for flaky bits in the oil plus excess metal paste on the magnet, right???

I'm tired, I'll post more pics tomorrow with more questions. Thanks.

-Kent
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April 8th, 2015, 02:56 AM   #27
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Check the piston, you my find what made the score still embedded, possibly
just above the top ring groove from the looks of the bore.

Could get away with just new rings if the piston ring grooves are not damaged.
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April 8th, 2015, 08:36 AM   #28
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Here are the thrust faces:

Front (major or minor thrust? Unsure which way the crank spins...):


Rear:



Some stuff:


I don't know why or when the ring broke, but I'm sure it caused SOME of the scoring in the cylinder. The deepest one (near the right side wrist pin) lines up with the piece of metal in the above photo and starts below the top of the piston's reach.

The other scoring on the liner starts above the piston so it was probably introduced through the combustion chamber. I'm thinking that a piece of dirt got in there (possibly, but big pieces shouldn't go through the air filter) or more likely a big chunk of carbon dislodged when it got wet. As you can see in the 3rd pic there was dirt/carbon under the ring in the ring gap.

Probably unrelated, but the liner had a small chunk taken out of it at the very bottom. Not in the cylinder bore, but just at the bottom of the casting. If that fell into the engine it could cause problems but maybe it was banged up when someone else had the liner out before?

I'll try to take the piston to my machinist this week for his opinion, but I suspect I know what everyone's advice will be.

The damage is done now, but I'm just hoping I can pretend that the engine was wearing like this for a while and I didn't f*&k it up this badly on my 3rd ride out...

Thanks!
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April 8th, 2015, 10:57 AM   #29
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use that piston again. it'll be OK. good infact.
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April 8th, 2015, 11:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
use that piston again. it'll be OK. good infact.
I agree. It doesn't look too bad. Maybe take some fine sandpaper to it. Ensure no high spots.
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