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May 18th, 2015, 11:30 PM   #131
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Mats

the idea of it is that you must use a ball and roller combo. by pulling the crank hard left the ball race sits true and square all the time while the right hand side takes all the expansion and contraction through a roller that has lots of axial space.

I don't think it's ideal but it might be a fix that is better than double ball to get you to the end of the year.

the Ballards in the UK have opened out the left main and have no oil seal there. they quite literally have two rows of rollers on the left now.

I don't think the spherical roller supports and guides the crank? whether it should or not depends on your opinion? a wooden lighthouse that bends with the wind or a super strong one made of bricks and mortar?

I doubt anyone is pushing these bikes the way you are, no two applications are the same. intense sustained maximum revs pulling a lightweight with little tyre slippage is not the same as bloke in a field. even ScX is just short blips and bursts with the temperature remaining far lower.

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May 19th, 2015, 11:50 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by bushmechanic View Post
if there was time to experiment and i had an RST engine I would try no CB replaced with a really nice supporting spacer for a 20mm wide 2206 NJ roller, and a NTN NJ206 roller on the other side and 1.2mm axial play minimum.
There is no time to experiment, I'm afraid... Let's say I would go for this configuration, do I HAVE TO rebalance the crank? Both my piston and rod are heavier than stock and I'm using the 80mm crank.

Regarding the NJ206, I have bad dreams from those inner ring shrouds being knocked off (0,8mm play), causing all kinds of Mayhem...
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May 19th, 2015, 04:40 PM   #133
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FWIW im running a bolted paddle tyre and ripping gears clean in half .. not as high rpms but no one else can do that except me LOL

ive only tried balance factors of 0.75, 0.58, 0.54 (approx) and 0.625

definitely around 0.62 feels the best for my chassis/bars etc

I would try it without re balancing the crank first to see if its bareable

yes you would have to add quite a lot of weight in your RST to the crank in order to bring the balance factor up to 0.6, but perhaps 0.4 would be nice as well

the amount of material you could remove from near the pin without having bad dreams with the rst would be very minimal I guess.

you could keep the cb and still run 20mm wide bearing albeit with less ideal axial support for the nj roller lips

spanner bored the drive side main tunnel deeper and added a retaining plate on the outside



Definative main bearing thread
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May 20th, 2015, 02:05 AM   #134
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Roller bearings do not like the crankshaft flexing.

Lighter reciprocating mass helps reduce flex.

Well welded crank pin helps reduce the flex.

Lighter crankshaft revolving mass reduces stress from the transmission.

The load carrying ability of a roller is far more than a ball bearing.

The rpm capability of a roller is less than a ball race, but it would
depend on the time spent over that limit as to weather
it would cause a problem or not.

C3 or better C4, NTN bearing will help cope with the flex. I have a SKF 2206 C3 on the LH side ( because I could not get an NTN 2206 C3/C4 ) and a
NTN NJ206 C3 on the RH side.

Polyamide? cage causes less damage if bearing fails.

The axial play 'seems' to be related to the amount of flex.

The counter rotating balancer is to balance the reciprocating mass.
My 675`s reciprocating mass was slightly lighter than Std 628 so I made no adjustment and feels just the same as stock as far as vibration is concerned.
Might try no counterbalancer on next motor, with a revised balance factor, But not convinced it will be good for the street or reliability.

Detonation may cause bearing failure also.

Overreving on these motors should be avoided IMO.
A good experiment would be to see how much lap time changes
by dropping the rev limit by 1000 rpm. 1000 rpm less would take a huge lode
off these cranks.

Just some rambling to add to the conversation

Last edited by spanner; May 20th, 2015 at 02:08 AM. Reason: contex
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May 20th, 2015, 03:03 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Dr_C View Post
There is no time to experiment, I'm afraid... Let's say I would go for this configuration, do I HAVE TO rebalance the crank? Both my piston and rod are heavier than stock and I'm using the 80mm crank.

Regarding the NJ206, I have bad dreams from those inner ring shrouds being knocked off (0,8mm play), causing all kinds of Mayhem...
I convert everything to roller on the 650s so I throw these rings away. I'll send you one straight away and then at least you have it infront of you as an option.

they fit a larger oil seal because the seal is on the ring NOT on the crank anymore.

it doesn't affect the balance as it is a ring.

I really don't know that this is the answer but if the balls are toast that quickly, i reckon it has a chance. either way, with the ring and seal sitting there you can make your own decision.

Taffy
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May 20th, 2015, 12:39 PM   #136
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I don't understand much what you all are talking about, but I enjoy looking at the pics very much. Also I enjoy this fancy engineers language that you use. Don't want to interfere too much, as I'm not worthy but I have a couple questions;

Are you all formally educated in engineering? To what degree, you can't be just mechanics, there has to be at least somebody here with a professors degree...

Mats, have you ever received a Nobels prize for your accomplishments in engineering? Have you worked for Husaberg or any other major (minor) motorcycle manufacturer? Would you donate a piece of your brain to me?

(To all) How come you choose Husaberg engines for your projects/experiments? Do you consider them superior, a good basis, easy to work on, inexpensive?


And an observation;

Taffy, seems like you can write and post in English so everybody understands and you can address people with due respect. Why don't you do it more often even with people who are not as educated/knowledgeable as these guys here? Please try....


Regards!

M.
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May 20th, 2015, 04:02 PM   #137
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the other option i mentioned a while back is to run preloaded ducati style angular contact balls as has been done in ktm rfs engines up to 613cc but IMHO the berg cases are not strong enough axially especially the drive side and even more so in for matts RST beast

there is room for 2 of 4 - 5 mm thick bisaloy plates on the outside of the cases (eg where spanner has the alumnium plate added)

my plan was to run the plates forward to be clamped together by the 2 engine mount bolts at the front and put a long bolt (or 2) through the engine to hold the plates together at the rear near where the long m6 case bolt goes

my dear M! i wager that the only difference between you and "us" is mechanical OCD and time spent in the shed. I chose husaberg because of the power to weight of the engine being very nice
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Last edited by bushmechanic; May 20th, 2015 at 04:05 PM. Reason: spelling :D
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May 21st, 2015, 01:06 AM   #138
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the other option i mentioned a while back is to run preloaded ducati style angular contact balls as has been done in ktm rfs engines up to 613cc but IMHO the berg cases are not strong enough axially especially the drive side and even more so in for matts RST beast
I agree Bushie, the cases are not strong enough for AC bearings under preload.
I suspect the cases flex along with the crankshaft. But I like to think that if the crank was not flexing then the cases with roller bearings would be fine.
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May 21st, 2015, 06:38 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by bushmechanic View Post
the other option i mentioned a while back is to run preloaded ducati style angular contact balls as has been done in ktm rfs engines up to 613cc
Everyone who was doing them this way has stopped. A buddy who is a builder on KTM talk who did about 10 angular conversions said all but one came back to him failed so that does not work I can guarantee. Not one of my motors but he ate a lot of warranty work fixing things. Cases broke, etc.
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May 21st, 2015, 08:59 PM   #140
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yes Chris i know the story very well

I still think it would work if you were to make the steel plates to hold the cases together with big bolts. Ducatis work very well with their ACs

the real solution obviously is bigger bearing and a lighter more rigid crank which leads to a new engine design ..something im very keen to do myself as well
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