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January 26th, 2016, 04:30 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
it might be that your mains are going? if they are the bike will spit the shims that create your crank float out.
You mean crankshaft main roller bearings? How can they effect the shims under valve springs? Or are you referring to the chips I found in oil?

I would like to run the DVSK kit I have...

I think I will use something thicker and harder stuff for the shims and try it out... How thick you think I can go with these springs? 0,5mm?

Any ideas on material? Bushmechanic said 2 points harder on HR(?) scale than springs. I have no idea what the metal springs are made of of how hard that is?

The engine runs very smooth BTW... Do you feel the in change of vibration if the bearings are going out of is it just instant failure and explosion?

Bonus picture of cylinder wall mark...
Attached Thumbnails
Taffmeisters DVSK upgrade FOC!-2016-01-25-18.44.06.jpg  
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Last edited by Husa Bergele; January 26th, 2016 at 04:38 PM.
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January 26th, 2016, 07:46 PM   #32
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Everything looks good there. Mains will eventually fail catastrophically, but your wont notice any difference in engine feel. Same thing with big end of conrod.

I noticed a bunch of metallic shavings showing up in the oil, and as I turns out, my bottom end was starting to go bad.

Originally Posted by Husa Bergele View Post
You mean crankshaft main roller bearings? How can they effect the shims under valve springs? Or are you referring to the chips I found in oil?

I would like to run the DVSK kit I have...

I think I will use something thicker and harder stuff for the shims and try it out... How thick you think I can go with these springs? 0,5mm?

Any ideas on material? Bushmechanic said 2 points harder on HR(?) scale than springs. I have no idea what the metal springs are made of of how hard that is?

The engine runs very smooth BTW... Do you feel the in change of vibration if the bearings are going out of is it just instant failure and explosion?

Bonus picture of cylinder wall mark...
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January 27th, 2016, 04:40 AM   #33
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the ktm atv dual set comes with 0.4 and occasionally 0.5mm thick lower seats

they are physically the same dimensions as the set you have so yes

there are lower spring seats available for street engines check ferrea, delwest etc.

if thats a no go you could ask mxtech if they have any old 0.5mm shock shims they are a bit soft but will work better than those pictured

let me know if you find a source i have an otherwise useless set of these springs as well.
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January 27th, 2016, 07:21 AM   #34
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all the shims are magnetic:
crank shims
SRK
and too a lesser extent the valve base shims.

The shims are made out of 316 grade stainless steel. I can supply you with 0.2mm shims and you can double them up. the original base shims from KTM were 0.5mm. I don't know what they are now but I do know that they were just mild steel and cut like butter.

so the photo of the really, really knackered shim is from before you had the bike?

and how many hours has it done with the 0.2s in?

I had a set of Kibblewhites, Steve Hardaker and I were the first here to experiment with them but I had valve bounce with them so stuck to the ones I sell now. they are a little stronger than the Kibblewhites, not as soft as the KTM springs (Bushie said it himself) but not a problem with them so far.

your liner (from here) looks good!

regards

Taffy
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January 27th, 2016, 07:28 AM   #35
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FWIW, two doubled 0.2mm shims are twice as stiff as one.

A single 0.4mm shim would be 8 times stiffer.

A single 0.5mm shim would be over 15 times stiffer.
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January 27th, 2016, 07:49 AM   #36
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I'll ask around from few local machining shops. Some might have 0,5mm shims in stock even...

I guess replacing all of the bearings and piston would be good thing to do at this point anyway (total 270hrs). All I know they could be the originals...

All bearings, Piston, cam chain, seals... All OEM. Anything else to look for?

How about con rod/crank? Just get them measured that they are in spec?

Would 1k be realistic budget for parts?

Machine shop handles work inside block and rest I can do myself... How many billing hours would that be? 5h?
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January 27th, 2016, 07:58 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
so the photo of the really, really knackered shim is from before you had the bike?

and how many hours has it done with the 0.2s in?
The absolutely destroyed ones in picture were one oil change interval, so 5 hours inside my friends 650...

The ones that were little chewed up and bent were 1 hour in my 650.
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Last edited by Husa Bergele; January 27th, 2016 at 08:00 AM.
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January 27th, 2016, 05:31 PM   #38
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thats correct tourist 2x 0.2mm shims is not stiff enough

the 0.2 alone is 8 times too flexible and fatigues as a result

stainless steel work hardens and is the worst possible choice

the ktm seats are not mild steel
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Last edited by bushmechanic; January 27th, 2016 at 05:35 PM.
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April 11th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Taffy View Post

I had a set of Kibblewhites, Steve Hardaker and I were the first here to experiment with them but I had valve bounce with them so stuck to the ones I sell now. they are a little stronger than the Kibblewhites, not as soft as the KTM springs (Bushie said it himself) but not a problem with them so far.

ive been asked to clarify this statement and im sick of answering pms about it

FWIW .....

the difference between taffys set and the ktm set at peak lift is insignificant... a few percent of the peak force. not enough to use as marketing.

what i did write was
the UK set is not quite as good as the ATV set
the main reason being (as the pictures in this thread show) that the ktm set comes with lower spring seats that are correct thickness.

also the price oibviously

Im also asked why use kibble whites when taffy has told them about valve bounce and damage to the engine....

i point out that there is no evidence of this observation

valve bounce occurs with any springs that are not installed as per manufacturers instructions.

if you make your own lower spring seats for kibblewhites like i did and run a seated force 25% lower than recommended by KPMG then you can expect some bounce with the "08" profile cam approaching 8500 - 9000rpm. 360 hours in my bike with 25% less seated force than
recommended by kibblewhite and no damage from bounce.

install them correctly as per Kibblewhites detailed instructions and there is no issue in any of our engines.

kibblewhites are designed, tested and maufactured by automotive engineers for the range of ktm rfs and berg engines down to 400 cc

they are not idiots.

now there is a positive thing about taffs set.. its good to be positive lol

becasue they are so long taffys set is idiot proof for installation apart from the shim debacle.

that is to say that even if you go to the trouble of making your own lower spring seats it is not possible to install taffs or the ktm set in the stock head with stock valves at a low enough force to see any bounce.

the shims are another matter .....

5 hours use



the ktm set is the same idiot proofness but comes with real lower seats and is available for about half the price.

i don't care which set you buy ... makes no difference to me.
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Last edited by bushmechanic; April 12th, 2016 at 04:14 AM.
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April 12th, 2016, 08:33 AM   #40
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Hi

That is why I received them (shims) but never installed them


ZAGA
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