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January 22nd, 2005, 05:43 AM   #1
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Exhaust pipe qualities, particularly header pipe

Hi All,

A bit of a hypothetical question here but something I'm interested in your opinions of anyway....

If you were to by a complete after market exhaust system for your bike (it doesn't matter if is enduro mx or sm), at a reasonable price that represents good value for money against competitor systems, would you be worried if the pipes became tarnished over a short period of time.

I suppose, in short, if the pipes begine to show surface rust, discoloration or anything of that nature, would it matter as long a the exhaust system performed its job well?

If it does matter - why does it matter?

Would you insist on a system that stays shiny and always cleans up to a shiny finish?

Overall which option would you go for and would it be a deciding factor in you purchase?

If there was an exhaust system available on the market that was enduro compliant in terms of noise output yet improved the power output of your Husaberg, would you consider buying it, assuming price was competitive?

What would be the primary reasons and deciding factors for you in buying an aftermarket system?

Would you even consider buying an aftermarket system for your 'berg?

What kind of price range would you consider good value and competitive?

I would be very grateful for your ideas and input.

Many thanks,
Simon
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January 22nd, 2005, 06:23 AM   #2
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Simon,

I had enough of exhaust rust with my time on Jap 2 smokes.

I bought a ti FP system (2nd hand) over the stainless variety.

Power, weight and quality were the reasons for my FP purchase, with importance in that order.

Stainless steel is ok in exhaust systems but mild steel or plated steel in my opinion is pony and therefore if only the power gain was there then the pipe would have to be quite cheap in comparison with a better ti or stainless system.

Are u thinking of something

Lloyd
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January 22nd, 2005, 06:46 AM   #3
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I would only consider a system that is less noisy than stock and has a spark arrestor. You can't legally run a loud pipe if you ride on public lands in California. This does not apply to closed course racing however there are noise limits also.

California noise regulations
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January 22nd, 2005, 09:01 AM   #4
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The only way I would consider purchasing an aftermarket pipe would be to replace a damaged factory component. The pipe would have to be as quiet or quieter than stock. It would have to incorporate a U.S. forest approved spark arrestor.The finnish would have to comparable or at least maintainable, it would have to look good if I cleaned it up. Price would be the next issue, everybody wants to save a buck. Last would be increased performance, that would be icing on the cake. When running properly I have never been at a loss for horse power or torque. Maybe 5% of the riders can use everything there Berg can give them effectively. Sound business sense say's to market to the other 95%. Let the others have the rest .
Just my thoughts on the matter, and as alway's.... I could be wrong

Ken
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January 22nd, 2005, 09:03 AM   #5
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Closed course db issues

Originally Posted by husabutt
This does not apply to closed course racing however there are noise limits also.
Yes, more and more - it's not truly "racing", but the Dirt Rider 24 Hr Enduro Torture test (next weekend) requires a 96dbA pipe limit. Two west coast Supermoto series also have noise limits at certain venues. Quiet pipes are the way of the future. Both Akro and Leo Vince are producing good-performing, quiet pipes, and I expect other manufacturers to follow suit.

Regarding the original question - is it OK if pipes rust ? Not to me. There are many solutions available in the materials marketplace, the best of which (in my opinion) is thermal coating. In addition to preventing rust, the best coatings also disperse heat. And they are cheap. No rusty pipes here, thanks

Cheers,

Brett Saunders
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January 22nd, 2005, 10:06 AM   #6
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I would like to buy a more quiet system than the stock unit, but only if the power loss was minimal. As far as rust, that's not acceptable. I would only buy a ceramic coated system such as BBR makes for the jap mini thumpers; a stepped header design. A header with ceramic coating keeps the heat in the exhaust which INCREASES performance. It is a freebie in the power game. Keeping the heat in doesn't cost anything. The ceramic coating that BBR uses looks really nice, doesn't rust, doesn't blue, and increases the power output.

Titanium systems produce less power than an identically designed steel system because the Titanium system transfers the heat from the gasses to the metal to the outside air more efficiently. Reducing the exhaust gas temp also reduces the exhaust gas velocity which reduces the power output of the engine. Racers buy Titanium systems for the weight savings and header design; not thermal efficiency.

Give me a chrome moly stepped header with ceramic coating.
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January 22nd, 2005, 10:20 AM   #7
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Hi Simon,
From a fabricators point of view:

Regarding True Competition Equipment:
Mild steel as it is quite easy to modify and / or repair.
Next is stainless then Titaniun. Both burn to a pleasing tint providing engine tune is correct. I avoid thermal barrier coatings (intended to retain heat as opposed to dissipating it) in this area as such makes repair and / or modification difficult.

Regarding Aftermarket Competiton:
Thermal coated mild steel is cost effective and pleasing to the eye.
Stainless and Titanium are lightweight and good looking, albeit expensive.

Pleasure and / or Show:
Stainless or Chrome.


Note:
If you are interested in viewing some of my custom thermal coated systems please visit: www.XR100.com

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Dale
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January 22nd, 2005, 10:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by LINEAWEAVER
If you are interested in viewing some of my custom thermal coated systems please visit: www.XR100.com
Sorry that I forgot to mention your designs in my post. I wasn't thinking about your systems because I consider them for flat track use only. Not well suited to the rocks on our single track.

XR100 has many Lineaweaver products that are race proven designs.
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January 22nd, 2005, 03:42 PM   #9
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Hi all,

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Please keep 'em coming.

It seems like noise is the major issue your side of the pond too!

Dale,

Thanks also for the fabricators viewpoint. For interest, what type of thermal coating have you found to be the most appropriate for you, is it some type of aluminium ceramic?

Brett,

These good performing, low noise pipes, do they actually perform to max. 96dba reliably without serious db killer inserts? Over here, there is a big trend in providing bolt on baffles/silencer restrictions in order to get around the noise issues, clearly also killing power.

Kind regards,
Simon
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January 22nd, 2005, 03:58 PM   #10
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Hi Simon,
In the early days I relied upon Alumicoat (TM) which was an Aluminum based spray applied under pressure @ extreme temperatures.

I currently use a ceramic coating available in a multitude of colors.

Regarding mufflers and noise:
Since we often must run @ fairgrounds noise is a big issue regarding GNC dirttrack. Such is the reason for the big cannisters seen on the twins. Said cannisters are affectionately deemed boom boxes. Such a design does not hurt performance and indeed reduces the noise level. Unfortunately they are huge and such is the age old tradeoff being:

Small = poor power / quiet
Big = good power / loud


Sincerely,
Dale
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