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October 19th, 2012, 05:46 AM   #11
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Re: Keihin FCR Vacuum Release Plate & Seal

Hi again

I've made a search on the web and didn't found any solutions, but found some aftermarket plates that you might be interested:

[attachment=2:3bdbjte3]FCRslides.jpg[/attachment:3bdbjte3]
This ones came from ebay and were at $60, but it ended

[attachment=1:3bdbjte3]1940.jpg[/attachment:3bdbjte3]
[attachment=0:3bdbjte3]1939.jpg[/attachment:3bdbjte3]
This ones are from keihin.de and I think its arround 140eur

They both claim that they are stronger than the original.


ZAGA
Attached Thumbnails
Keihin FCR Vacuum Release Plate & Seal-fcrslides.jpg   Keihin FCR Vacuum Release Plate & Seal-1940.jpg   Keihin FCR Vacuum Release Plate & Seal-1939.jpg  
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December 1st, 2015, 01:49 PM   #12
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Gents, an interesting thread with ideas for the same problem I am experiencing. I'd like to see a photo of the gasket solution as it's not clear to me.
If I understand correctly, the following is the effect of wear form the rollers:

under suction the slide can move further forward onto the carb body and press the plate harder against the wall of the carb body? on my carb the grooves are deep enough that now the slide itself touches the front of the carb body, i can see the wear marks. The whole slide must rock forwards at the bottom according to the wear marks on the bottom front side of my throttle plate.

in the normal condition without any wear, then the slide must sit further back from the front face and have more clearance. The throttle plate must be able to move further forward away from the slide body and against the carb face when new?

One possible, "easy" solution I can see is to make new wheels from a plastic material that are wider, sitting further in towards each side of the slide, so that they will run over the previously unworn section of the carb body. I think we can get 1.5mm in this way. Thoughts please?
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December 1st, 2015, 03:29 PM   #13
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Just come in from the cave. having stripped the bottom half off the body of the carb.
The wear on mine is deep enough at the bottom that the slide can now contact the carb body.

The wheels can be redesigned to sit very close to the slide body, inwards, getting another 1.5mm of load bearing surface, a good idea anyway to reduce wear, even on a carb that is in good condition today.

I'm taking the body to a friend tomorrow and see what his thoughts are about wire EDM a channel, idea from earlier in this thread, from the inside corner of the carb to just past the wear zone, on all 4 corners. Keeping depth to a minimum to get rid of say 75% of the groove depths. Then we insert some brass strips up all 4 sides. Need to give some thought as to how to secure the brass strip, as it will be less than 1mm in thickness, but I'm sure there's some glue / resin / epoxy out there that's more than capable.

If this seems to be a goer, then since most of these carb bodies are from the same casting, it should be possible to repair the majority like this using the same fixture.

The replacement wheels should be made from a softer sacrificial material and cost only pence each, so easy to have 20 in a bag and replace all 4 each year. Would this not be a way forward for new carburettors?

Any thoughts?
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December 1st, 2015, 07:56 PM   #14
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sounds good

i like the idea of brass or steel inserts, possibly the job can be done by a good machinist without edm in case access to such a machine is difficult .. not the case for you probably but others.

none of my carbs have ever worn out so i cant offer much advice sorry, i use caltex vortex 98 and there always seems to be an oily residue in the top of the carb and on the slide

did you notice one wheel is smaller intentionally so that the slide sits on 3 points rather than try to be on 4 ?
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December 1st, 2015, 09:07 PM   #15
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Thanks for this info. Am I the only one who really appreciates that this board gives like this, but remain unsure I even understand it all?
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December 1st, 2015, 11:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bushpig View Post
The Keihin FCR-MX Carbs are notorious for having this plate wear / crack / rattle etc....

To buy the plate and the seal is an excercise in frustration when it comes to the pricing that gets quoted around the place. The way to go is this: Buy the Honda 'kit' which comprises the seal and the plate for around $64.00 + shipping. The Honda part number is 16037-MEB-671 . To buy the parts here in Oz (as a genuine Honda part) will set you back around $214.00 retail so make sure you go to a US Honda parts supplier.

Before you start the job (giving the carb a birthday) it's worth having a read of this: The Keihin FCR Carb Rebuild With Zip-Ty Racing - Dr. Dirt - Dirt Rider Magazine | Dirt Rider

Cheers,
Bushpig
I just ordered the Husaberg/KTM gasket kit 57331099000 which includes the Vacuum Release Plate Seal, all gaskets and O-rings, except the mid body seal, for about $90.00. Also ordered the needle valve assembly 57331020000 for $70.00. The Husaberg exploded diagram does not contain part numbers for all of the parts shown. I could only find the tiny torx screw that holds the link arm to the slide from Sudco. I thought the torx was a Phillips and ruined it in no time. Their exploded diagram seems to show all of the parts except the mid-body gasket that is only available from Athena I believe.

Once I dismount the carb yet once again ( I am actually getting good at removing and installing it so something good is coming out of this) and install all of these parts hopefully it will cure the massive exodus of fuel from the overflow and bottom of the carb. I will definitely check for body grooving and release plate wear.
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December 2nd, 2015, 09:48 AM   #17
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Stage 1 Completed

Ok, as mentioned last night, took the carb body with drawing to an EDM shop today and they performed their magic.
The attached photos show a 6mm wide channel that is 0.8mm deep, wire eroded out of the wear areas. A quick and pain free exercise.
If I was to do again, I would get him to take back the front face of the carb body by maybe 0.2mm to get rid of the majority of the wear present on it.
A new throttle plate could be made that is thicker by the same value to compensate and keep the clearances the same.

Next step is to cut the insert strips and these will be made with 0.8mm stainless steel. They will be fettled to a good press fit and bonded into place. Any unevenness will be made good with light stoning to leave a flat surface.

It'll be a week or 2, maybe into Christmas before I get this completed and tested, but I'll report back as I make progress.

For anyone without a worn carb I would strongly urge to replace the wheels with ones that are 1mm wider and from a softer material. If there was enough volume I'd think these would become only a couple of quid each. The Keihin item is 8 in the UK. These could then be replaced every year and there will be no future issue with carb wear. I'll get some made and let you all have a look and think.


If I'm missing anything, please shout before I go flat in 6th over a cliff edge

Cheers

Gavin


P.S. Photos to follow, looks like I have to upload them first ......gggrrrrrrr
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December 2nd, 2015, 10:20 AM   #18
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Just a thought before I forget. How about fitting a sleeve made of Nylatron. This stuff wears like iron and is self dry lubricating. Of course this would not be a do-it-yourself operation but if someone is thinking about bringing a commercial fix to market............

Nylatron NSM self lubricating, highest wear resistant, nylon plastic for bearing aplications such as, wear pads, linear pads, rollers, wheels, wear components, gears - Quadrant

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December 2nd, 2015, 02:20 PM   #19
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[/IMG][URL=http://s132.photobucket.com/user/chinesespaceman/media/Keihin%20FCR%20Mod/image.jpg1.jpg.html][/
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December 2nd, 2015, 02:22 PM   #20
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[IMG]http://


[/IMG]


[/IMG]


Sorry guys, struggling with these images from iPad....
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