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May 23rd, 2011, 11:57 AM   #51
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

Thanks for that great write-up. That's all great stuff to know, and I appreciate the tips.

Ok, second full day ride on mine yesterday. (2010 390). Since the tough restarting issues of last time I've wrapped the header and coated the tank with reflective heat tape. I also dumped the coolant and replaced it with water with water wetter.

It was cooler out yesterday - but - no restarting issues, except for just one at the end of the day. I could start it in gear this time too, which is great because with the rekluse neutral is very hard to find.

Now the bad news - a couple of hours in I was having bogging and hesitation issues. There were no common symptoms - it would do it under hard acceleration and also steady throttle. I pulled the plug, and did a visual inspection of it and the cap ( which I'll admit is a fairly useless test). Also checked battery terminals and ground. All good. Tried to ride around it. I thought maybe it was a fuel filter issue, as it seemed if I was using a lot of gas it would start to bog, but if i let off more often it could be fine. So I'd just coast into corners a bit. I rode like that for an hour or so, and then the problem just went away. I rode another three hours with a heavy throttle, and had no issues at all. So now I'm confused but happy. (pretty much how I go through life). But, toward the end of the day it started bogging and hesitating again. Not as bad as before, but still annoying. It was home time by then anyway.

So, I think I'll swap my plug, replace the filters, and maybe remove the injector for a visual inspection. Any other suggestions from the group?

(forgive the typos - I'm on my iPhone!)
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May 23rd, 2011, 01:06 PM   #52
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

Originally Posted by BRN2RDE
Go to the submersable fuel line and you will not have the cutting problem with the clamps. The submersable stuff is expensive, but clearly better suited for in tank applications.
I did use the submersible line from Gates. I still think the fuel softened the line, so between that and the fact that I tightened the clamp too tight I had problems. I think the type of clamp I used played a part also. I used a normal screw type clamp because I could not get one of the "FI" clamps tight enough in my opinion. The thing that bothered me when I was doing this and led me to over tighten was the fact that I could pull the line off the top of the pump with little effort so I was afraid the pump pressure would blow it off. Is there a fuel resistant glue that could be used to help secure the line? If there was then I would feel better about it.
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May 23rd, 2011, 01:16 PM   #53
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

Originally Posted by Garrison
Thanks for that great write-up. That's all great stuff to know, and I appreciate the tips.

Ok, second full day ride on mine yesterday. (2010 390). Since the tough restarting issues of last time I've wrapped the header and coated the tank with reflective heat tape. I also dumped the coolant and replaced it with water with water wetter.

It was cooler out yesterday - but - no restarting issues, except for just one at the end of the day. I could start it in gear this time too, which is great because with the rekluse neutral is very hard to find.

Now the bad news - a couple of hours in I was having bogging and hesitation issues. There were no common symptoms - it would do it under hard acceleration and also steady throttle. I pulled the plug, and did a visual inspection of it and the cap ( which I'll admit is a fairly useless test). Also checked battery terminals and ground. All good. Tried to ride around it. I thought maybe it was a fuel filter issue, as it seemed if I was using a lot of gas it would start to bog, but if i let off more often it could be fine. So I'd just coast into corners a bit. I rode like that for an hour or so, and then the problem just went away. I rode another three hours with a heavy throttle, and had no issues at all. So now I'm confused but happy. (pretty much how I go through life). But, toward the end of the day it started bogging and hesitating again. Not as bad as before, but still annoying. It was home time by then anyway.

So, I think I'll swap my plug, replace the filters, and maybe remove the injector for a visual inspection. Any other suggestions from the group?

(forgive the typos - I'm on my iPhone!)
Since you are going to have to remove the tank I would pull the pump and visually inspect the fuel line for signs of kinking. I remember reading about another guy that had a zip tie inside the tank that was too tight and as the fuel warmed up the fuel line would soften and that zip tie would crimp the fuel line resulting in symptoms like you describe. You may need to pull the pump out of the bottom, inspect the lines, then pull the regulator off of the top and inspect the lines from that end also. make sure to tighten the four screws with even pressure or else you will have gas run everywhere when you fill up like I did. Just another part of my adventure the other night.
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May 29th, 2011, 10:01 AM   #54
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

FWIW,

One needs to be careful when re installing the fuel pump in the tank, as the screw hole wells for the regulator stick down into the tank like stalactites and can grab onto the fuel line causing it to bunch up and cause kinks.

I use a long thin screw driver to reach up inside and push the fuel line down so it pops over these indentations.

The other way as mentioned by another poster here was to pull the fuel pump assembly up from the top regulator to avoid the same thing.

Note: Berger and I were discussing this topic, and a couple of others regarding FI related problems and talked about making some stickies in the fuel section. After reading through this whole thread I went ahead made this a sticky since it covers many different anomaly's regarding fuel pumps, running conditions etc....

NOTE #2: Just so everyone knows, the Honda CRF's are also having similar problems with pump related issues, you just don't hear about them like you do here. And they basically have the same FI system that our bikes have.
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May 31st, 2011, 10:07 AM   #55
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

Thanks for making this a sticky. This is an important subject that affects many of us.
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May 31st, 2011, 11:17 AM   #56
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

Well looks like I may be a candidate for another fuel pump...

I took my 2010 FE 450 out yesterday and rode on my land SLOW since I separated my shoulder a while ago and not feeling too confident. 1st and 2nd gear, temp about 80, grass and some mud, easy ST. After about 45 min I stopped and a couple minutes later restarted but just barely. Rode up a hill in 1st and stopped the bike at the top. Couldn't get it REstarted. No pump engagement sound, fuel boiling hard (Scary), no problems with cranking. I pushed it too to the hill but couldn't get it going fast enough to bump start it. I could still hear the fuel bubbling, how nice! Finally loosened up the cap slowly and extreme fuel pressure/vapours/WOW.

Waited for 5 min still no restart. Called my husband to come get me on the wheeler how embarassing! After 10 min it fired up as if nothing had happened. Can't have this. I often ride by myself, stop to clear out something on the trails etc. so ride/restart when hot is a requirement. Also when riding in a group you're always waiting for someone and shut down to keep the bike from overheating.

My Berg stats: 2010 FE 450 new in March 2011 The dealer is 8 hours away!!!!
8.5 hours, 160 miles
OEM fan kit (fan mostly off)
Mid pipe ceramic coated
Gas tank underside has reflective heat tape
Valves ok at 3 hrs
Wiring loom on engine protected
Stock exhaust silencer but Krisman KTM version (supposedly less restrictive)
Fuel cap ball is still in (kinda like that if I tip over) I going to pull the vent line check valve today
Gas 92 octane fresh 1/2 full

Thanks all!
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May 31st, 2011, 12:55 PM   #57
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

I would agree. Sounds like the same behavior as mine. I have done a couple things to try and help. I am running 87 octane gas now and I put in a fan switch that comes on at a lower temp in hopes I could start pulling heat off sooner. I'm not sure what I did will prevent the issue, but it may help. Time will tell.

I'm also wondering if running these bikes low on fuel is contributing to the problem. If the fuel level gets low enough the pump won't be fully submerged in fuel and may overheat which could be the thing that causes a pump to start having this issue. Does that sound logical? I know I didn't have this problem until my pump came out of the housing after a bad fall and my pump ran while not submerged in fuel.
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May 31st, 2011, 02:05 PM   #58
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

How do you get your fan to kick in earlier? I wondered about just making mine a manual switch. It rarely comes on when on singletrack.

I don't know about being exposed to air having much to do with the issue. Mine did it on my first ride not even half a tank in. I know it's been speculated that maybe the fuel tank goop had stressed the pumps. Or maybe there was just a crap batch in 2010.

Still waiting on my new filters and plugs. I'll swap those out and see how it goes. I have the Cycleworks pump sitting on the shelf too. Interestingly, mine wouldn't restart on the first ride, but it did re-fire all but once on the second. My issue was a stumbling and hesitation issue. Differences between first and second rides were that I tightened up a tight intake valve, wrapped the header and coated the tank. It was also cooler out - maybe around 70 degrees instead of 80. So I think I may have fixed one issue and inherited another!

MP - are you back to your stock pump? I seem to recall you switched back. How has it been working for you?
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May 31st, 2011, 04:16 PM   #59
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

I bought another fan switch from partsgeek.com. They come in different on/off temperature ranges. The fan switch from a 1984 BMW 318i is an equivalent replacement. The part I got was the FAE W0133-1632716 in the 91 C on temperature. Many sources for that part.

I did switch back to my OEM pump because I didn't trust the hose to pump connection at the top of the ca-cycleworks pump. So far so good on the switch back to the OEM pump, but it hasn't really been hot enough yet to push it into the danger zone. I am confident it still has the "gets hot, won't pump" issue. At one point last summer I just shorted the fan switch connections to each other so the fan would run constantly. I still had the pump issue when it got hot enough.
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May 31st, 2011, 05:55 PM   #60
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Re: Aftermarket fuel pump

Originally Posted by Garrison
How do you get your fan to kick in earlier? I wondered about just making mine a manual switch. It rarely comes on when on singletrack.
You can wire a switch in Parallel across the 2 pins on the Thermo Switch if you want to manually Switch the Fan on and off. The Thermo Switch is on the Right Hand side radiator, on the bottom.

If you want to save on wire, you can run 1 wire from the Switch to the Bike Frame (Earth) and the other wire to 1 of the pins on the Thermo Switch. To work out which pin on the Thermo Switch is the correct pin, try both until you find the 1 that works. You will not blow anything up if you chose the wrong pin, it will just not work.

My Thermo Switch stopped working sometime back and the fan was on continuously. Here are all the numbers and details on the old one I took out:
THERMOSWITCH 95-100 DG
78035045000
U04
36060
FAE
100 / 95

14mm x 1.5mm thread
The thread part is 11.4mm long

Davo.
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