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February 11th, 2007, 03:33 PM   #1
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Starting problems 1995 FC 501, Street Legal, SEM ingnition,

Starting problems 1995 FC 501, Street Legal, SEM ingnition, Dellorto VHSB 38, WAberg Seattle WA USA

I am new to Husaberg and the group so I need a little help analyzing my problem and deciding on the best solution.

My current state of affairs…the bike is hard to start, but runs fine.
I have read many posts, but have gotten a little confused.

Here is my data . All measurements were taken with a Fluke 189 DVM with max hold capability.

Max Spark using adjustable gap method … about 2/10th of an inch which I think is about 12KV As I understand it, this is at least 40% low. As I understand it 20KV (0.3 inches or 8mm) should be the minimum with 30KV ( nearly ½ inch) being quite reasonable for a new system.

MY SEM Stator measurements

Loaded
Black to Red .. many hard kicks with no spark plug.. 40 VAC MAX average reading
Black to Green … many hard kicks with no spark plug. 0.8 VAC MAX average reading

Unloaded
Black to Red 1578 ohms 46 VAC
Black to Green 22 ohms 1.0 VAC

Coil Measurements
High Tension lead to ground 7200 ohms

My analysis…please check for sanity…

The trigger voltage is low at 0.8 VAC which will account for the fact that the spark fires some times and does not fire other times while doing the spark plug removed kick through test even at 2/10ths of an inch. This indicates that the stator needs to be replaced or rewound for the trigger voltage problem.

The Coil Charging Voltage (Red Black loaded) of 40 VAC seems to be quite adequate according to what I have read. If that is true and the max spark voltage is 12kV as shown by the 2/10th max gap spark test, that would indicate a problem with the coil/black box.

It is my impression that the minimum spark should be 8mm or about 0.3 inches ie about 20 kV I am only getting around 0.2 inches and that is intermittent due to the low trigger voltage of about 0.8 VAC max. A smaller gap gives a much more reliable spark.


I think I have three choices.

1. Have Sparks rewind my existing stator. About $200 after the dust settles.
Up Side…This one will probably have a better life expectancy because of better wire and craftsmanship.
Down Side…This does nothing for the Coil / Black Box if there is an issue there.
Second Down side…The bike will be down for three weeks to a month while the stator is being shipped to Spain, rewound, and shipped back to me.

2. Buy a new KTM 580.31.002.050 as others have done and install it in place of my existing 1995 SEM stator.
Up Side. $160 and the bike is only down long enough to change out the part.
Down Side…after a couple of years of riding this stator is likely to deteriorate and I am back to the same old problem.

3. Buy a DC-CDI-P from IgniTech, replace the existing Coil / Black Box with a dumb coil. About $250 for the parts and pray that I can figure out the relation between the falling edge of the timing pulse and TDC. I think it should be about 32 BTDC…need some help here. This is a reasonable option since I am an EE and I have a reasonable amount of electrical test equipment at my disposal.
Upside… fight with some timing issues, and I could have a modern, fairly bullet proof, system.
Down Side…I could be starting a new saga that takes way too much time to complete.

Is there a fourth option that I have missed??



I need a bike that starts reliably. The idea of being 30 miles in the boonies and standing on a stump kicking for twenty minutes to get the bike started is not a reasonable option.

Key Questions:

Is the coil marginal? The numbers I got do not seem to jive with what I saw on the site…. I have 12kV and I should have 20kV minimum, but the coil charging voltage (Black Red )seems adequate at 40 VAC loaded.

If the coil needs to be replaced, where do I find one? I read one post that indicated that the SEM Coil / Black box was $468

If I stay with the original style ignition, it seems to be a no brainer that the stator needs to be replaced due to the low trigger voltage..ie 0.8 VAC loaded. Right … Wrong… need a little help here.

If I go for the DC-CDI-P system, does anyone know the relationship between the trigger pulse on Green and TDC??

WAberg
TFox
Terry Fox
Issaquah WA
tfox@fox2k.com
1995 FC 501 Street Legal, reserve tank on right rear number plate.
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February 12th, 2007, 12:41 AM   #2
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Re: Starting problems 1995 FC 501, Street Legal, SEM ingniti

Hi WAberg,

Welcome to the UHE you will find it very interesting and informative. Good detailed post for your first one.
I disagree though with your thoughts about the trigger coil being at fault. Firstly the resistance measurement across black and red is low should be 1750 + - 10%.
When testing the voltage off load it can prove to be giving good output voltage but when this is put under load this is where it breaks down shorted turns on the output source coils hence the low resistance. This is why you can only get the spark to jump a small distance.
If it was an intermittent spark due to the trigger coil you would still get good spark performance but intermittent, what you have here is insufficient voltage to charge the capacitor which in turn is sending a low voltage to the primary windings of the HT coil.
The job of the trigger coil is to send a small sense voltage to the thyristor to open the gate and let the stored voltage in the capacitor go to the HT coil.
The cdi black box will be OK.

Regards

Sparks
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February 12th, 2007, 12:09 PM   #3
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I Ride: 99 ktm 200exc, 96 CR265, 77 xs650 bobber, 2000 honda superhawk
RE: Re: Starting problems 1995 FC 501, Street Legal, SEM ing

hey wa berg! i just had same trouble with my 96 fc 501 street legal. wouldn't start for crap. but ran great once going. i'd be willing to bet it's carb related. del ortos are touchy i am finding out. did i mention i am also a kent,washington rider? for 215 bucks cycleworks in renton will do valve adjustment, completely go through your carb and do all fluid changes. not too bad. see the thread in fuel section under 501 cold start problem. wildbill is great help.
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February 20th, 2007, 09:10 PM   #4
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Starting problems 1995 FC 501, SEM ignition, Round 2

Starting problems 1995 FC 501, SEM ignition, Round 2

I have just replaced the SEM Stator with one of the KTM units. Resistance was correct on both the Red and the Green.

The spark is jumping a gap of 0.37 inches

The Black Red generates 38 VAC Max loaded and 44 VAC Max unloaded

Black Green…ie the trigger pulse is 0.8 VAC Max Loaded and 1.3 VAC Max unloaded.

Although I have read that some units need as much as 3.5 VAC loaded in order to fire, it is my opinion that 0.8VAC Max is quite reasonable. This is assuming the trigger pulse is directly firing the gate on the Thyristor. That gate is simply a PN junction and assuming it is silicon, it will be forward biased at 0.707 volts and will be drawing considerable current by the time it reaches 0.8 VAC where both the old stator and the new stator perform.

One odd thing is that if you kick it through and the spark tester does not take the load, the spark will become very intermittent unless you let the bike sit for fifteen minutes. This seems to indicate that things go amiss when the spark plug is not there to take the load. Once that happens, there is no spark…so go have coffee and come back later.

With that said, the bike is still very hard to start..I am going to start trouble shooting the carburetor next.

Any other suggestions…I may take Bucklee’s suggestion and haul it down to Cycleworks.
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February 21st, 2007, 03:52 PM   #5
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RE: Starting problems 1995 FC 501, SEM ignition, Round 2

check the small hole at the rear of the carb. it's a tiny thing but worth a quick try. it made mine fire off right away when i thought i had spark trouble.
get the kick to barely past compression and kick it like its a 125. i have to kick mine over very fast to get it to light up.
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February 22nd, 2007, 09:37 AM   #6
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RE: Starting problems 1995 FC 501, SEM ignition, Round 2

hey Terry welcome and its nice to see another washington native on here did you happen to see my post on this same type issue look for ready to give up!!!! in the general these guys on here have such a welth of knowledge its great

can you give me a list of stuff the dmv asked for. i remember years ago my friends dad got the teal colored KTM 300 plated whats the current status for home

mike
98 FC501
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February 22nd, 2007, 10:33 AM   #7
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California is reputed to be one of the tougher states on this issue. I would go to BajaDesigns to get more information on lights & dual sport kits in CA.

However here is a list of the items added to the bike.

1. DOT Tires
2. An Electrical system.
3. DOT dual level head light
4. Tail and Break lights with break switch
5. Horn
6. Turn indicators front and back
7. Rear view mirrors

WAberg
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February 22nd, 2007, 12:21 PM   #8
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WAberg, Where are you located in WA? I have my '07 plated here in WA and so far have had no issues..
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February 22nd, 2007, 09:02 PM   #9
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jwilly,

I am located 18 miles East of Seattle

WAberg
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February 23rd, 2007, 04:36 AM   #10
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2.5 hrs north of me. Just north of vancouver
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