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October 20th, 2018, 03:10 AM   #11
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I would think so yes! Practically all of these lightweight in-bike batteries are LiFePO4, and the differences are essentially cell quality and the protection modules (which may or may not include fuse action, over/undercharging, cell balancing). As far as I know, LiFePO4 cells are very stable and docile, so I would conclude that all “12V” / 4S LiFePo4 chargers work for all such batteries. And almost any lead-acid charger that isn’t doing trickle charging, which I believe is because the charger will “fight” the battery as it reacts differently than a lead-acid to a lead-acid trickle charge strategy the charger uses. (I do believe that a good protection module might protect against the negative effects of lead-acid trickle charging, but am not sure.)
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October 24th, 2018, 07:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by tourist View Post
It's pretty much an exact match for the battery box!

Re. chargers: You do not want a lead-acid trickle charger on these batteries. (However I believe that EarthX batteries are less sensitive to these than other LiFePO4 batteries as they have a full protection board embedded).

But you also don't need a trickle charger for these as they effectively don't self-discharge at all. They don't discharge just by sitting. So if the bike is going in storage - and you'd usually want to have it on a trickle charger with a lead-acid in it - then with a LiFePO4 battery you'd just pop the seat and disconnect one battery terminal and it won't discharge at all.

Non-trickle "lead-acid" charging does work (and so the bike's battery charging system does work to charge these batteries). It's just the particular and specific thing of lead-acid trickle charging which isn't compatible. So it has been nothing to worry about in my experience. Might seem more serious than it is because of how many words I've spent explaining it but it's more that it's a little specific and tricky to explain
Thank you for all the help! I'll go with the EarthX. What does the protection circuit do/mean?
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October 24th, 2018, 07:10 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by pjk380 View Post
+2 on the EarthX ETX12a. Its a few millimeters smaller in size than the stock lead acid battery. BUT, that is a good thing. I think this is the battery that should have came with the bike.
Good to know about the size. Thanks much
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October 26th, 2018, 09:50 PM   #14
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Lithium Battery,
I have a SSB 170cca, had it for 3-4 yrs , been faultless in my bike.

Lithium batteries is a whole new ball game. I wont buy AGM or other any more, sick of the short life and weight of them.

Not sure about all lithium battery make ups ,chemistries or manufacturers, but I am lead to believe lithium batteries do not like to be over charged , or accept heavy charges from below or around 0 degree Celsius , they do not like excessive heat like engine bays either.

They should have a control module built into the manufactured batteries , this controls the upper voltage cut off when being charged, they don't like over charging or being completely discharged either, so the control module will have a low voltage cut off as well ,so it does not harm the battery and gets most life out of it. There is also individual cells in them , they will have individual cell voltage monitoring or cell balancing , this keeps the individual cells charging or discharging on an even keel so to speak all together.

I think the most stable of lithium make ups is the Lithium phosphate LIPO4. Lithium will also sit on a shelf for many years holding the same voltage without being charged or trickled charged. It does not have to be fully charged to be stored , it does not effect the life of the battery.

The lithium battery has no resistance , so it should accept charge 20% better than AGM or lead acid also. ( basically in theory, you could charge a lithium battery in a very short time)

Others say and I tend to agree, they like a bulk charge and do not like smart chargers or multiply phases of charging. Things like float and equalisation are not the best for them from what others have commented on. Bulk charge is the way to go for maximum life and when it reaches its max safe voltage the module should cut off the charge source.

They are a very high amp discharging battery also potentially, and will accept high amp charging currents. However on manufactured batteries they have protection in them and will be limited to what can be discharged , such as 100-150amps perhaps in the module.

To show lithium batteries do have modules in them with cut outs, ever discharged a lithium cordless drill or tool?, you will notice it will discharge to a certain voltage and stop or cut out all of a sudden, unlike older battery drills used to run dead flat!

Lead Acid/Agm battery = 500 cycles down to 12v ( 50%)discharge, life expectancy

LIPO4 = 7000 cycles down to 70% discharge.

I have been researching larger lithium batteries( prismatic cells) for 4 odd months and have built a custom 160amp hour pack for camping. It is fantastic , a little expensive to build , but its a life time battery pack if looked after it.

Do the lithium batteries blow up ? They sure do! Certain chemical make ups will

However the Lithium phosphate LIPO4 make up is quite stable to a degree , if it wasn't there would be a lot of people with ears burnt off or missing. Your mobile phones have simular batteries , same as all the tradies 18v tools.

Don't just take my word for it ,as I am not by any means qualified to talk to much on them , read up on them , quite interesting stuff.

Hope this helps.
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