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February 13th, 2015, 08:59 AM   #31
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A couple points about using lithium batteries in our bikes. ( I use a shorai and love it)

-lithium will die quickly if overcharged, via charger or your bike/stator
-do not use a charger that as a desulfator mode, or equalization mode
-when cold, lithiums have reduced voltage. you want to warm them by making them work, via running the lights or starter for a 1-3 seconds.
-lithiums have very low self discharge rate, so your bike doesn't even need to be hooked to a battery tender unless it has unusual system drain
-lithium can take 2-5x the number of charge cycles compared to regular lead acid battery
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August 8th, 2015, 06:26 AM   #32
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So! I bought a couple of 4-cell LiFePo4 packs from A123RC.com. Free shipping, $45 each. Shipping was not slow and everything arrived in one piece. Arrived fully charged. They weigh only 390 grams.

These, the 4s1p 26650 A123RC type: http://www.a123rc.com/goods-130-Moto...23AH+4S1P.html ... they carry a plastic-case version as well but those cost more to ship and I doubt the protection is worth it for a bike as they don't look all that waterproof. Am prepared to be wrong on that though.

The packs are simple but I'd say they're well made. Wire quality is good and the included Anderson-type connector is useful! (They put 50A-type connectors but after reading the Anderson connector datasheets you'd really want a 75A-type on bikes like ours as those connectors have a ~150A burst current rate.)

A 4-cell 4S1P pack should be enough to start any Husaberg. The stock Yuasa YT7ZS CCA battery has 130 CCA ("cold-cranking amperes"), while the 4S1P pack has 140 CCA. The 4-cells have less total capacity than the stock SLA - 2.3 Ah (ampere-hours) compared to 6 Ah - so slightly greater risk of running a flat battery if you forget to turn the lights off or have to start it repeatedly without any charging. (That said, I had some trouble with my carburator and had to hammer the battery - the voltage barely dropped, indicating plenty of charge.)

8-cell 4s2p will have double that CCA and Ah capacity (and weight and bulk) ... 12-cells triple.

I've only tried in my DR-Z so far but I'm quite happy. The pack is tiny so I dropped it into the airbox and removed the battery box. Weighed the Suzuki's battery box ... and ONLY THE BOX weighs about the same as the entire new LiFe battery

The handling difference is REALLY noticeable!!

The thing starts the Suzuki well too. Feels a slight bit different. Spins up sliiiiightly slower - not as abruptly - but still very vigourosly. Conversely the clocks come on even while the starter is spinning which iirc didn't happen with the lead battery. Seems like the current flow has sliiiiiiiightly more inertia - slightly! - but is more "massive" and sags less under load.


However!, the real test of the A123RC.com packs - whether they put good A123 cells in them - is how well they last. I'll write something up as I learn more.


If I were spending more on a LiFePO battery, I'd get an EarthX today. No doubt. A123 cells, fully sealed waterproof case, and a protection circuit that balances the cells and protects against undervoltage aka overdischarge. Got the A123RC packs as I'm strapped for cash and needed a battery. The A123RC packs shipped cost less than a lead battery around here!

Last edited by tourist; August 8th, 2015 at 06:32 AM.
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August 8th, 2015, 04:46 PM   #33
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nice one tourist !

i just got 4 of these and a 4 cell BMS will see how it goes



https://www.fasttech.com/products/1683801
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August 8th, 2015, 05:41 PM   #34
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I used to have the Yuassa batteries,which were good. In fact I remember one lasted 7 yrs, left the 550 sitting in the shed for 6 months, never touched it or charged it, it started the bike still.

Then got a cheaper brand name one, exactly the same.
It seemed to last well, infact it looked exactly the same, just different coloured plastic on it.
Performed well.
I then got onto a SSB Lithium battery off ebay for my latest bike. Much smaller and very light weight. In fact it is so light weight , the thin battery terminal wires with the bend in them , lift the battery up, ha ha.
Had that in there for 12 months ,no issues, don't think they lose much charge sitting in the shed either.
I am pretty convinced that the major battery manufacturers own or have ties in some of the cheaper labelled battery companies, they change the colour in the plastics mould , re sticker it , sell it cheaper.
That way they can target a different market.
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August 9th, 2015, 12:10 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by bushmechanic View Post
nice one tourist !

i just got 4 of these and a 4 cell BMS will see how it goes

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1683801
Sweet!!, looks like a very nice useful size / capacity cell for bikes

- which BMS? got a link? haven't struck gold there yet thanks
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August 9th, 2015, 02:14 AM   #36
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wouldn't say its gold ..... does 60A, cheap ebay item, just have to make sure the over charge and over discharge limits are correct for you battery packs specs

would be nice to find a 200A one so we could run the starter current through it, im putting everything through the BMS except the starter main wire, the starter relay signal wire will go through the bms so it should be just as good




Battery Protection bms PCB Board w Balance for 4 Packs 12V 60A LiFePO4 Li Cell | eBay
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August 9th, 2015, 02:34 AM   #37
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Nice. interesting.!

Would be interesting to see how earthx do it .. surely it's based off a reference design from a bms chip mfr and an equivalent board hopefully out there somewhere

offhand - maybe even obtainable by swapping transistors for higher-current on that board?
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August 9th, 2015, 02:46 AM   #38
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fun to ponder

fwiw here's a 150A board: Protection Circuit Module (PCM) with Equilibrium Function for 4 cells (12.8V) LiFePO4 Battery Pack at 150A limited ... $150 :/ and afaik batteryspace.com aren't an expensive store in general

that said there is probably not that much need for current limiting anyway as you suggest - our bikes shouldn't toke so harshly upon the battery that it's needed - quite clever to stop the battery at undervoltage with the starter signal
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August 15th, 2015, 03:44 PM   #39
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I wonder if 150a is enough ?

some 300a solid state relays

Solid State Relays | Timer Relays | Waytek, Inc - Page 1 of 4



too expensive compared to earth x with one already inside it
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August 15th, 2015, 06:21 PM   #40
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Hi all,

Not sure you would need a BMS for A123 LiFePo4 batteries I haven`t used one and no problems at all, it is certainly necessary with some of the other battery chemistries as over charging them can cause fire.

What you also have to look at is how fast the batteries are designed to discharge and at what temperature, some may not discharge fast enough to turn an engine, or will fade with the higher temperature caused during operation.

We tried starting a Honda 929 with my 4 cell A123 LiFePo4 just last week, it
did the job easy but it got rather hot almost to hot to hold

I include a balancing circuit when I built my LiFePo4 battery and have a
the proper balance charger.
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