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July 7th, 2005, 09:37 PM   #11
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Forgot to tell, It's SEM.
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July 7th, 2005, 11:01 PM   #12
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Any thoughts on checking the timing on the 04/05 bikes. I have not figured out a method yet.
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July 8th, 2005, 07:50 AM   #13
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Oscilloscope?
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July 9th, 2005, 09:33 AM   #14
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Taffy, this is an interesting post to me.not being a mechanic i saw this post and became courious as to what has prompted you to persue


this quest for timing knowledge. a customer of ours had purchased a new stator for his 470e as the bike was starting poorly.after installing the stator it ran good,started alright hot but not very good cold.he changed the timing and it started much better cold.unfortunatley i dont have the details what he did but will try to get them.dan.
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July 9th, 2005, 09:58 AM   #15
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dan

the information i have i believe is of great importance. unfortunately it's beyond many to find the true Top Dead Centre of an engine.

it is certainly different to the mark on the flywheel. the right mark of the two is meant to be TDC. after carefully checking i found it to be out by 8 degrees.

the simplest way was to make a mark to the right of the pair of lines already there by an equal distance +1mm like so:
I I I

i then painted it blue.

i then strobed the engine and changed the timing by rotating the ignition to the left. this advanced the ignition. i guess i moved it all of 6-8mm to get it there and now the line is just inside the 'window' on the left about 1/4 the way across your view.

i did a post on this at the time but will never find it now. if anyone else can help that would be great ?????? coz i don't even remember if i started a new thread to let ya'lls know. it'll be in 'electrical'.

how to find TDC; i've described several times and did it only again last week on a thread in 'mechanical' named something like 'cheap workshop tools'.

i wish more riders would try it but folk don't always want to try too hard. they want to hear it, yes-but actually do something about it? err -no!

it is at the end of the day though only a 5 minute test. i went out to my bike and started it first kick as usual just now.

regards

Taffy
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July 9th, 2005, 11:19 AM   #16
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All one needs is a Kowa Seiki battery powered timing light (parts unlimited), dial indicator with 10mm, 12mm,and 14mm thread attachments (enco wholesale tool), a basic knowledge of math to understand the distance around a circle is 2PiR (for making your own stick on degree markers), a digital inductive tach(Mity tach makes an inexpensive one, parts unlimited again), and timing specs. You are now ready to install even an old motoplat ignition on a vintage Euro bike with no flywheel locating key. Well, maybe with a bit of tutoring from Dale! The hardest starting bike I ever owned was a 1990 Husky 510. Would regulary blow your foot off. Previous owner had installed a replacement stator (incorrectly) and timing was way advanced. Could it be some of the members E Start woes are due to the same issue as my old Husky? And if the electronics are indeed overadvancing to 40 degrees, backing off the static a bit to help E starting may be a success without too much low RPM performance loss . Of course, before anyone gets too excited, pull the plug wire and ground it while cranking. If it still struggles to turn, overadvanced timing isn't the problem.
dan
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July 9th, 2005, 11:52 AM   #17
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well that's easy then! nobody has an over advanced ignition phew! glad we got that one out the way!

nobodys leg has been attacked by a kickstart i believe which further confirms my opinion that they're retarded by 6-8 degrees.

dale has indicated i believe that with the correct full-on advance of 36-40 degrees BTDC the ignition at low speeds is over advanced.

i have also been told that the ripples in my barrel will have been coused by possibly a sloppy piston/detonation/ over advanced ignition - delete as applicable as they say!



i'm guessing my 'rippling' is from low speed over advancement. however i can't feel or hear anything and i'm not creating too much heat i don't think.

matbe a case of correct ignition timing higher up and over advanced down low???

i guess you 'takes yer choice'

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July 9th, 2005, 05:29 PM   #18
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Cylinder wear on a 4 cycle is always at it's worse close to TDC. Because the vertical movement of the piston is next to nil (ie very low velocity) when the crank is between 15 DBTDC and 15DATDC any remaining lubricating film is lost. Detonation would cause pressure spikes pushing outward behind the rings and heavily load the cylinder sleeve at this time. Most often one also sees other signs such as pecked up piston crown and beat out ring grooves. With a loose piston skirt the ring doesn't always retain it's seal as the piston rocks on the directional change and the cylinder wear is a torching of sorts from gas rushing by the rings.
dan
oh... and glad to hear I'm the only poor sap that has had a Husky/Husaberg attack their foot. I never complained though cause I always remember the guys kickstarting their old pan heads. They took a much worse beatin than I did. Always figured it was a voodoo spell their wives placed on their HD to get even with them.
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July 9th, 2005, 11:53 PM   #19
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DSducati

15D ATDC i think you meant but your point is well made. i don't have any spikes, friction marks or poor ring land.

help me with this?
the ducatis i raced required .0015" piston to barrel clearance. air-cooled engine-81mm piston-nikasil lined.

but the husey requires three times that!

ring gap; on the duke it was .0015" per inch of bore which equalled .006". i ran .008" to be safe but the husey gap is over .020" from new.

all this on a water cooled engine which everyone tries to tell us runs cooler and can run tighter tolerances?

er! i don't think so!!!!!

so although the pistons are even smaller and lighter than mine (and so they should be after 25 years) but i can't follow why they're so sloppy from new?

regards

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July 10th, 2005, 12:56 AM   #20
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remember dales advice that any movement of the ignition timing will be doubled at the strobe. so 2d at the crank is 4d on the strobe etc.

this thread will remain a direct link from the 'owners doc'.

regards

Taffy
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