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March 17th, 2012, 07:28 AM   #1
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I Ride: 1995 dakota 408 5spd 8 3/4 rear end
stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

So before i just start looking for one though it would run my problem past the husageniuses....
1st off bike ran great all last fall on the road and winter in the feilds, i noticed the last time in the feild before i took off the knobbies one quick stutter at low rpm slight acceleration and thought it was about out of gas so i took it back to the shop and parked it (had already ridden it a while earlier that day)
now a few days later and three days in a row i road to work (20 miles), all has great power in the morning i feel no problems, quick ride to lunch a mile or two, then ride twenty miles home, and halfway home it is when the problem starts,
it will accelerate fine medium speed or wot zero-90mph but when let off throttle (even very slightly) and twist it back on (even very slightly) its like its out of gas, just stutters till engine rpm slows down for 1 second or so.
even when not beating on it and cruising at 55-60 mph and slightly let off throttle and twist it back on it will act as its out of gas and will have to slow down a little before i can accel.
i really thought it was a fueling issue but the bike hasnt sit all winter to gum up and i took the carb apart and it looks cleaner then ever inside, i blew it all out just for sure and made sure there wasnt anything in the fuel lines or filter at carb inlet.float height normal, all looks fine. i swapped the plug and put some new air filters. fresh gas just for kicks.
the problem is plain and simple heat related as it never happens the first time of the day only after its been ridden, last night i checked stator values when hot (30 minutes after getting home and shut down) red to black resistance (15% over spec) 2055 ohms green to black 23.4 ohms, three hours after cooling down
readings were 1749 ohms red to black and 20.6 green to black and within spec.
starts easy with kick start or button and problem has seemed to get a little worse each day. i may rig something up to my dvom and get the problem to happen and kill the motor and check readings immediatly with my dvom just to see if i can get a way high resistance or open circuit, i really dont want to replace the stator if not need but everything else seems fine. i have read enough to know how these stators are and this particular one just had its 15th birthday!
thanks guys for any input
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March 17th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #2
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I Ride: 1995 dakota 408 5spd 8 3/4 rear end
Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

today i took the tank off to set up my test probes and switches to test stator values at there hottest point and after i put everything back together i turned on the key and my speedo light came on till i hit the button then no click or power nothin, took the seat off, did a wiring wiggle test and found the postive battery cable loose!! I havnt got a chance to run it yet but i have my test apparatus set up just in case, i dont know why that would cause it my issues only after being driven a lot but the problem was getting worse quickly, i got my fingers crossed tomorrows test rides go well....or at least get some conclusive data
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March 18th, 2012, 12:35 AM   #3
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Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

Hi Bergini,

From what you have described I would say it's the stator, especially when you don't have the problem before the engine gets hot.

Heat is one of the main killers of electrical insulation, and the factory enameled covered wire on the output coils is crap, this is one of the main problems to why this type of stator fails.

Even though your resistance readings are quiet good apart from the trigger coil should be 23 24 Ohms when cold. Basically what happens is when your engine gets hot you get shorted turns taking effect, this has a big impact on the voltage getting to the ignition module and then the performance of the spark. If this is the problem you also get bad starting when the engine is hot.

The test you are looking to perform may be quiet difficult as the voltage will fluctuate depending on the rpm, you would need to check on both the output voltage and the trigger voltage, keep the rpm as stable as possible to see if it fluctuates.

But if it's my guess I would say it's the stator acting up, especially at 15 years of age.

I seem to remember some body else on this site had the same symptoms as you going back a few years, but I can't quiet remember the out come or who it was, maybe somebody else can.

Rregards

Sparks.
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March 18th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #4
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I Ride: 1995 dakota 408 5spd 8 3/4 rear end
Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

Sparks,

how would i go about checking output and trigger voltage? on the red and green i assume? or yellow charge wires? is there is spec to compare to vs rpm? is this ac or dc voltage?
sorry for all the questions but who better to ask though then the master? i just really want to prove the stator failure prior to getting it done, as an auto tech and am paid to prove components bad prior to installing a part, i would really like to do that here if possible.
right now i have a kill switch tied in to the red stator wire circuit and have my dvom probes set to simulate on ohm test like you would do with the stator uplugged on the bench for the red to black ohm test.
today i got out on it a couple times and had the problem start in during two test routes just not quite as bad as it has been lately but still obviously there, i would try to keep the problem happening for a minute, stop quickly and kill the engine, flip the switch (within 30 seconds of problem happening) and both times i got 2285-2295 ohms on the red to black (31% over specified 1750 ohms) it did always seem to restart ok but when watching the dvom reading it would go from 2295 ohms to 2275 ohms in just a few seconds, its possible its even higher or OL in the exact time of the problem.
I am really thinking stator is my thing but i cannot think and feel ok about ordering one, i have to know lol, i have more tools and time to run tests than i have spare moneys to buy parts i dont for sure need. its too bad the thing causing it wont just die, then i could know!
thanks again sparks for you thoughts and second opinion, it is a much appreciated one
cheers
maybe i can hook up an old school lab scope like a side car and watch the inductive patterns more closely
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March 19th, 2012, 07:48 AM   #5
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Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

Hi,

No there is no voltage spec, it would make things to complicated.

It is quiet normal to see such a rise in resistance as engine temp rises.

Just do a spark performance test, remove the HT cap and the plug, place HT lead 1/2 inch from the cylinder, away from the plug hole, on normal kick the spark should jump this air gap no problem. Do the test with the engine cold then hot, there should be no difference, if you find you have kick the kicker harder to to achieve the same performance as when cold your stator is on it's way out, simple test but effective.

I think you are trying to look to far down the road here and the problem will be closer to home.

One thing I want to ask, has the needle and emulsion tube been replaced, these are a known problem on the Dellorto.
If you have a rich condition you might get away with it with cool morning air and a cool engine, but higher air temp and engine temp could just tip the balance, it's a thought.

Anything I might have forgotten just ask.

Regards

Sparks.
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March 19th, 2012, 07:05 PM   #6
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I Ride: 1995 dakota 408 5spd 8 3/4 rear end
Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

Sparks,
I will do your test as it sounds easy enough, is it absolutly necessary to use the kick start, electric start just seems easier, but i guess i understand it may be valuable to compare the feel of the kick to spark output better then the feel of pushing a button to spark output.
I have replaced the needle and needle jet recently and the emulsion tube was checked recently and looks fine, i will continue to moniter it and stay close to home as it seems to be getting worse quickly so i am sure i will find it soon enough, the time i didnt get it to act up when driving yesterday was when just after the sun went down and it was a little cooler and could feel the chilly air pockets when driving at speed there was just a hiccup every once in a while. one thing i just thought of that was different from the end of last year was my gear ratio, i still have my higher off road gear set in and the rpm's about 1,000 higher than what i would normally cruise at on the street and i am sure its getting hotter for an extended period and it seems hotter than i remember too; possibly just showing its age due to this. when i first got it i didnt have the lower gear set and it was ok then when running it throught the same paces. maybe another reason why off road it seems ok too, i cant remember the last time off road i held it in 6th gear at 4,500-5,000 rpm for twenty minutes straight, lol, maybe thats why i am still alive.....
I understand when it gets hot that the resistence readings will increase, and i understand that each stator will act differently as each case will be a little different with engine jetting, mods, state of tune, etc.
One last question, is there a maximum high resistence that i could see and say that its bad without question?
Or maybe the kickstart test will make it obvoius and it wont be needed. I do overthink things frequently but i also rarely replace a part that doesnt fix the concern in the first attempt. its not that bad now but if i can repair it before it totally dies when i am 15 miles from home is what i am trying to go for.
thanks again sparks for all your help,
sorry i am such a novel writer, its a curse i must live with
bergini
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March 19th, 2012, 07:05 PM   #7
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I Ride: 1995 dakota 408 5spd 8 3/4 rear end
Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

Sparks,
I will do your test as it sounds easy enough, is it absolutly necessary to use the kick start, electric start just seems easier, but i guess i understand it may be valuable to compare the feel of the kick to spark output better then the feel of pushing a button to spark output.
I have replaced the needle and needle jet recently and the emulsion tube was checked recently and looks fine, i will continue to moniter it and stay close to home as it seems to be getting worse quickly so i am sure i will find it soon enough, the time i didnt get it to act up when driving yesterday was when just after the sun went down and it was a little cooler and could feel the chilly air pockets when driving at speed there was just a hiccup every once in a while. one thing i just thought of that was different from the end of last year was my gear ratio, i still have my higher off road gear set in and the rpm's about 1,000 higher than what i would normally cruise at on the street and i am sure its getting hotter for an extended period and it seems hotter than i remember too; possibly just showing its age due to this. when i first got it i didnt have the lower gear set and it was ok then when running it throught the same paces. maybe another reason why off road it seems ok too, i cant remember the last time off road i held it in 6th gear at 4,500-5,000 rpm for twenty minutes straight, lol, maybe thats why i am still alive.....
I understand when it gets hot that the resistence readings will increase, and i understand that each stator will act differently as each case will be a little different with engine jetting, mods, state of tune, etc.
One last question, is there a maximum high resistence that i could see and say that its bad without question?
Or maybe the kickstart test will make it obvoius and it wont be needed. I do overthink things frequently but i also rarely replace a part that doesnt fix the concern in the first attempt. its not that bad now but if i can repair it before it totally dies when i am 15 miles from home is what i am trying to go for.
thanks again sparks for all your help,
sorry i am such a novel writer, its a curse i must live with
bergini
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March 19th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #8
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Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

The only reason you will see high resistance is if there is a dry joint on the coil connections within the stator or one of the winding wires has fractured and has laid down a carbon track, but most often than not the coils will just go open circuit.
Regarding the emulsion tube for what they cost I would have it replaced.

I know what you mean, if it does finally break down it's never on our door step. Keep me posted if anything develops.

Regards

Sparks.
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March 21st, 2012, 09:21 AM   #9
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Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

I am having the same issue, so I truned up the idle, cut more plastic from around the seat and baught a can of WD-40.

Everything will be fine, just stay out of the way and don't get in front of me.
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March 21st, 2012, 02:54 PM   #10
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I Ride: 1995 dakota 408 5spd 8 3/4 rear end
Re: stator or fuel issue? i thinks stator..

I dont know what you talkin bout cuz?
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