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January 7th, 2014, 08:58 AM   #21
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Re: Water Pump Seal Fix!

isn't that seal the wrong way-around then Zaga? it looks great though!!!

really well done and I do like the steel outer idea, I couldn't imagine doing these engines nowadays without it.

regards

Taffy
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January 8th, 2014, 01:26 AM   #22
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Re: Water Pump Seal Fix!

Hi

Taffy, thanks for your concern but it's correct, the pict probably deceived you.

Here is a better one
[attachment=0:34cxeezr]WP_seal_in_place_2.jpg[/attachment:34cxeezr]

It's got to be this way, this seal is intended to stop the water pressure not the oil pressure.

Obviously the metal ones are better, but I could not find one with that dimension. The main reason for the metal ones is to stay in it's place and not to move, specially in a more hot environment. But this VITON one that I got resists well and with one more mm also helps to stay in place. I think I won't have a problem with those, if something fails I will report.

Anyway, this should be easier than to correct the shaft


ZAGA
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January 8th, 2014, 01:39 AM   #23
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Re: Water Pump Seal Fix!

nice Zaga!

for some time I used 6mm seals and sanded them down to fit (5mm)

5 6 and 7mm wide seals seem to have been molded around the same steel cup so you can sand the rubber off down to 5mm wide before you hit the steel

this was only discovered because my trusty local bearing/ seal shop didn't have anything else

now I like to use an 07 -08 ktm 65 water pump seal it doesn't seem to wear the shaft much and is very nice soft blue stuff.
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January 8th, 2014, 08:43 AM   #24
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Re: Water Pump Seal Fix!

Hi Bushie

I'm not 100% sure of this because ktm can have their own standards and suppliers, but at least here in my market, the blue seal is the standard one and that kind of brown one, is the VITON one (you can check in the previous pict).

If my memory doesn't fail me, the blue one (standard) has a working range to around 80 C, and I think that at least in some occasions, the cooling liquid will go over that limit.

That is the reason why I'm using that, but I was a bit harder to find, the blue one you can find it anywhere.

Before the ktm ones, what was you using ?


ZAGA
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January 8th, 2014, 06:20 PM   #25
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Re: Water Pump Seal Fix!

that's good to know about the ratings and the materials

before the KTM ones I used really cheap black ones from the local shop, they seemed very good but seemed like they chewed up the shaft more than the blue ones

I find that the externally steel bodied ones sometimes don't seal around the OD (in other applications) and the rubber ones have steel inside them anyway.

when I started running the blue ones I polished the grooved (worn) area of the shaft with #1200

the blue seal runs in the groove created by the older seals

it is possible that at some point the wear just stops and everything works nicely with the shafts diameter being reduced by wear up to a point that it can still seal and not wear much.

i never had one start leaking due to wear, just replaced them often when fixing other stuff
Thanks from spanner
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September 16th, 2014, 01:28 AM   #26
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Hi

I've been seeing some weep hole posts again, so I remembered to update some information about this, something that I should have done long ago
Sorry

So, about my solution of using a wider seal, it didn't worked very well for me, some times I had a very small leak, sometimes I didn't.
In my opinion, the problem is that my shaft has a very very big groove (as you can see in some early pictures), so with only 1mm away from the groove, the seal lip would be running in and out of the groove, causing some occasional leaks.
I still think that for a small groove like the one that Bushie showed, it can be a good solution, not because it won't seal in the same position, but because it will put the wear in some other place.
Then I went back to the OEM seal and it's still ok, so this shows that even with a very large groove the seal still works. Anyway now I have a new shaft that I will change in the first opportunity

Now for another info, this one has been tested for a couple of years
I'm a proud cheapskate, so I always try to find some cheaper solution for the problems I find, this is just another one.

I've tried to buy the SKF ICOS series bearing outside KTM, but no one could sell it to me, they all said it was locked to a manufacturer, so I tried to find other solution.
This is a solution for one that wants to change the bearing, but still has a good seal.
So what I have found it's that you can use a "normal" 2RS bearing and install the seal from SKF ICOS in it. You just have to remove the rubber seal from the standard bearing and you will see that you have the same groove on the bearing as the ICOS, so just install there the seal.
You have here some pictures so you can see it better.
If you want you can even leave the rubber seal in the other side, so you will have a double seal, but you won't have the lube from the engine oil.

This one has been tested for some years, so you can try it


ZAGA
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March 31st, 2015, 02:47 AM   #27
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great posts, my 450 started to leak coolant from the weep hole over the weekend, haven't took the cover off yet to inspect, but i imagine its the seal that's worn.
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March 1st, 2016, 01:41 PM   #28
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Bumping this thread as I couldn't find a more recent one.
Has anyone tried using double lip seals (23 vs 21) ?
It might be that the second lip would run outside of the worn groove.
I'm sure it's been though of before.
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March 1st, 2016, 05:52 PM   #29
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Just to add to this grease the inside lip of any seal you are installing. water pump or not.....
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May 24th, 2016, 10:42 AM   #30
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Changed original O-ring with thicker 10x1.5 and fitted 2x black rubber water pump seals 10x18x4. First seal that is closer to bearing facing outside (stoping oil from geting out) and second one facing inside (stoping water from geting inside). So far not a drop of coolant or oil. Will see how it works in future...
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